New 440 build issues

[moparedtn]

Hi all.

I'm sure I'm not in the proper location but here goes.
Have a new built 440 with .509 purple cam and goodies. Would be around 500hp more or less. This thing should smoke the tires running a 3.23 posi. It's a dog and can't even chirp anything but my fuel drop..lol

Well, no wonder it's a dog - it has a GM rear end in it!

 

[Wietse]

Well, no wonder it's a dog - it has a GM rear end in it!
View attachment 1675359

I took it a bit more "silent" approach...

With 3.23 gear gearing incl. a sure grip and having only 160 psi cranking pressure i think you will not spin those tires.

 

[pnora]

Had it built in ON by carquest. I'm sure they did or should have.

Thats the first red flag. You have no idea if it was or was not degreed. Big rookie mistake.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If the damper has spun, are you sure you have an accurate TDC? Perhaps it's not advanced as much as you think.

Champions 12 should be ok.

Do you know what pistons your running? I have not seen your estimated static compression? Their are online calculators you can use to compare actual to theoretical to see if their are signs something is off...like the cam timing. With the quality of parts made nowadays..aligning the dots is not very reliable.

 

[chermik1999]

With 3.23 gear gearing incl. a sure grip and having only 160 psi cranking pressure i think you will not spin those tires.
That cam is a little large to give any push at low rpm.
I believe the purple cam has 242* advertised duration, i have a similar cam, 4.10 rear gearing and 165 psi CP and burns tires all day with that combo.
When you floor the pedal it will just take off right? No stumbling or other abnormalities? Where does the rpm go if you floor it from standstill?

Yup...soft launch but just goes. From a standstill runs up to 3000. But as I've been stepping up the timing, it's slowly getting better. When I started out, would launch and when WOT stared sputtering and starving for fuel. Removed 50 yr old tank, installed rear under bed tank, new pickup and lines to pump. Changed pump push rod in case it was worn. Was ok but replaced it anyway. Installed a mr gasket pressure Guage as the liquid one wasn't accurate. Now reads solid after regulator. So that problem is solved..
I just don't get it. I replaced a 69 440HP. So came from factory 10.1 and nor much cam. CR was 150 across except 1 which was at 125. So tired and leaky etc. Had 31" tires on rear with old stock 727 and could smoke tires anytime. This new 440 should do at least that?
I could just drive it. But with all that rumpity, at the lights i would get embarrassed..
Lol. I just think I can get it better. Something I'm missing.

 

[chermik1999]

If the damper has spun, are you sure you have an accurate TDC? Perhaps it's not advanced as much as you think.

Champions 12 should be ok.

Do you know what pistons your running? I have not seen your estimated static compression? Their are online calculators you can use to compare actual to theoretical to see if their are signs something is off...like the cam timing. With the quality of parts made nowadays..aligning the dots is not very reliable.

That's what I was thinking. Got TDC with piston stop last fall before mexico for the winter. Was out 4°. But now it could have slipped again. So like I mentioned, have a new one from summit coming shortly. Then will know for sure.
Getting piston info shortly. But may have 516 heads not 906. Will pull cover off Sunday and report.
But still to be that lean at WOT tells me more fuel and/or timing, no?

 

[chermik1999]

Well, no wonder it's a dog - it has a GM rear end in it!
View attachment 1675359

Yes yes...sure grip...lol

 

[chermik1999]

I haven't read all the posts, but a single plane intake & a high rpm cam??
That will be part of the problem, plus you have a heavy car with a 3.23 axle.
Not a recipe for spinning tyres......
Sometimes, too, engines just do not come together 'right'... for no obvious reason.
Nick's garage has recently dynoed a 383 rebuilt to factory specs. Max tq is down about 40 ft/lbs from the factory rating. Much testing/adjusting has not improved it.
[1] Your plugs are OK, do NOT go colder. Too many people install cold plugs that are not needed & which then foul.
[2] You have the best carb on the engine now.
[3] 5-6" of vacuum at idle? Something wrong there, maybe wiped cam lobes or CR is very low.
[4] If vac is 5-6" at idle, the met rod pistons in the carb are probably bouncing around. To check, loosen piston cover & move slightly so that piston is visible. Tighten cover screw. Engine idling, put in gear; pistons should go down & not move. Not down, or any movement requires softer springs.

Yup...got that all.
Changed piston springs already as that's what was happening. Brought up a bit but not much. Running a vac pump for the booster now.
CR is 9.5 with .020 cometic. So with 516 closed chamber, still should be good close to 10:1.
If spun lobes, wouldn't you hear it? Be hammering not?

 

[#41]

It needs fuel I think?

Have you verified the actual pressure? If you are running a mechanical fuel pump, did you check the rod? There have been instances with new rods that prematurely wear.

 

[chermik1999]

Have you verified the actual pressure? If you are running a mechanical fuel pump, did you check the rod? There have been instances with new rods that prematurely wear.

Yuup and just replaced the rod yesterday. Old one was in spec, but starting to show wear.

 

[bigbluedodge]

In my opinion (everyone has one):

I'd use the 21 idle - 35 degree total timing

I'd get more fuel to wide open throttle and idle and less at part throttle:

13 afr at wide open
13-13.5 at idle,
13.5 -14 at part throttle

No way would I advance the timing with the wide open throttle so lean.

 

[1KoolBee]

What is your cranking compression? Are you using stock or stock replacement pistons? Did you calculate your actual compression ratio when you reassembled? Also did you degree the cam or just line up the dots?

 

[chermik1999]

In my opinion (everyone has one):

I'd use the 21 idle - 35 degree total timing

I'd get more fuel to wide open throttle and idle and less at part throttle:

13 afr at wide open
13-13.5 at idle,
13.5 -14 at part throttle

No way would I advance the timing with the wide open throttle so lean.

Yes thanks. I'm in agreement with you. With this combo, I don't believe the stock mech pump has it. I'm installing elec 30 GPH Sunday. Eliminates 1 more variable.
Then with steady flow of fuel, I can start tuning the carb. AFR values are close just too lean at WOT. 12.5 at part but I can bring that up some too. WOT is my problem thus starving for fuel.

 

[4speed68rt]

The timing chain needs to be moved in some way. It is a tooth off, or 180 out or something. That would be the first thing to do, as the smart guys have said. Figure out if your camshaft is in correct timing, or at least close. Be careful with piston to valve clearance, if it has flat tops.

 

[chermik1999]

The timing chain needs to be moved in some way. It is a tooth off, or 180 out or something. That would be the first thing to do, as the smart guys have said. Figure out if your camshaft is in correct timing, or at least close. Be careful with piston to valve clearance, if it has flat tops.

Ya just wished if they remembered degreeing it. But a tooth would be excessive. So don't think that. Runs well but no above half way returns. Gonna ditch mech pump Sunday and go elec. Once that's in, then at least I'll know the fuel delivery is dealt with. Can attack carb after. Have to get WOT back somewhere around 13.0 Or less.

 

[GTX MATT]

Also the balancer shifted. I found TDC and put on tape for new TDC. But to be sure, ordered a new balancer from summit. As soon as it comes will install to be sure.

This is likely your problem if you don’t have the tape in the right location your timing is off.

I would put the Brawler 850 back on, being way lean at WOT is an issue. Could be an issue with the carb you’re using, but if the 850 does the same thing it is likely a fuel supply issue or a vacuum leak. You do not need to change the PVs, that circuit is not active at idle.

What are you running for an air filter? Make sure there is decent clearance between the lid and the choke horn.

What are you running for exhaust after the headers?

What kind of starter is on it (stock or late model/mini) and how are you running the compression test?

Last, is Carquest the name of an engine machine shop, or was this engine built by a machine shop thats run by Carquest the big parts company?

 

[Wietse]

I'm installing elec 30 GPH Sunday. Eliminates 1 more variable.

If it would be lack of fuel at WOT it would stall or stumble, i had this happen due to a worn push rod on the pump and at WOT the engine sucked the fuel bowls empty and just goes nose down with a sputtering engine.
The lean reading at WOT seems more related to carb jetting, increase the jet size by 4 steps and see what it does.

 

[chermik1999]

This is likely your problem if you don’t have the tape in the right location your timing is off.

I would put the Brawler 850 back on, being way lean at WOT is an issue. Could be an issue with the carb you’re using, but if the 850 does the same thing it is likely a fuel supply issue or a vacuum leak. You do not need to change the PVs, that circuit is not active at idle.

What are you running for an air filter? Make sure there is decent clearance between the lid and the choke horn.

What are you running for exhaust after the headers?

What kind of starter is on it (stock or late model/mini) and how are you running the compression test?

Last, is Carquest the name of an engine machine shop, or was this engine built by a machine shop thats run by Carquest the big parts company?

Well I found TDC with a piston stop. Was out 4°. Tape should be in the money.
Air filter is K&N and good clearance. Hedman headers with Dynomax Super Turbos and resonators before. Was too loud. It's a lil red express so not much pipe to the stacks.
Mini starter and normal comp tester with hose and Guage.
Yes is the same. In London, ON they have a machine shop as well. They built it.

 

[chermik1999]

If it would be lack of fuel at WOT it would stall or stumble, i had this happen due to a worn push rod on the pump and at WOT the engine sucked the fuel bowls empty and just goes nose down with a sputtering engine.
The lean reading at WOT seems more related to carb jetting, increase the jet size by 4 steps and see what it does.

OK...good thought.

 

[chermik1999]

If it would be lack of fuel at WOT it would stall or stumble, i had this happen due to a worn push rod on the pump and at WOT the engine sucked the fuel bowls empty and just goes nose down with a sputtering engine.
The lean reading at WOT seems more related to carb jetting, increase the jet size by 4 steps and see what it does.

Only 1 more jet/rod to change and it's out. So will try that but will check floats again too. Might be too low??