Overheating has ME overheated!! 2nd Electric fan(s), I think it's not the fan or radiator

[dla4567]

For my 354 Hemi I bought a cheap aluminum rad off eBay and an electronic fan from a Jeep. Never any cooling issues and fan cycled off regularly.

 

[Lionized]

I've bought replacement hoses that have the spring in them, why would they include it then?

I suppose that because of the wall thickness of the hose the spring may be a requirement to prevent it from collapsing? I'm not saying they aren't available, I think everyone has bought one with a spring from their local parts store. I've also bought ones that do not have the spring. I've also seen weak, worn out old hoses collapse. I would just hope that a spring in any lower hose is stainless steel or otherwise corrosion resistant.
Do your own due diligence.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I am so distraught...CURSED!!!

I put the clutch fan back on today. Keep in mind that this is the 2nd time I have personally done this.
Last time it worked better than the dual 12" fans and shroud. No "220 plus degree" temps. I thought I'd like it to be a little cooler sitting still at idle, but it was only in the 190s-200
So today I drove a few blocks, about 2 or 3 minutes to the backroad highway. Hit the back highway, 55 MPH limit, and that's what I drove. AC on, temp in the high 180s-low 190s. I don't think it got hotter than 192.
Stop and go through a few lights, still good, 187-192. Jump up on the highway, 72 MPH and 3,600 RPMs...
ALL GOOD!?!
The 421GOAT was rollin! and I was chillin' AC still on BLAST...Max temp was 197 and that was the same route that took the temps over 220 degrees yesterday. I'm good I'm thinking, I'll mod the factory shroud and it will maybe work a little better, but staying under 200 degrees is GREAT.
DAMN ELECTRIC FANS!!!
THEN I GET HOME, AND I SEE THE ½" OF SPACE BETWEEN THE FAN CLUTCH FACE AND ALUMINUM RADIATOR WASN'T A BIG ENOUGH SPACE!!
The face of the fan clutch somehow closed the ½" gap and chewed its way into my "new" aluminum radiator...coolant spraying everywhere, dripping off the hood...

So I have torn up my new Cold Case radiator, I've paid about $350 for each of the electric fan and shroud assemblies, another $100 for the Dakota Digital PAC-2800BT fan control module, and about another $60 for 2 circuit breakers and 2 relays.
Now I'm looking for TWO 17" FLEX FANS because I have serious doubts about the 17" electric fan on my Roadrunner, and I only have 3" of space between the radiator and the Wraptor pulleys.
Looks like almost ALL 17" FLEX FANS ARE OUT OF STOCK....EVERYWHERE!
I'm going to put the factory radiator in the GTO tomorrow and see how much space I have between the fan clutch face and the radiator. If I don't have at least an inch of space, I can't run the clutch fan.
TWO ELECTRIC FAN AND SHROUD KITS
TWO CIRCUIT BREAKERS AND RELAYS
ONE DAKOTA DIGITAL FAN MODULE
ONE COLD CASE RADIATOR
AT LEAST 4 DAYS UNDER THE HOOD...
and what do I get??
One torn up radiator, 2 fan and shroud kits to return. A Dakota Digital fan control module that I don't need, and the relays and circuit breakers I can't use.
AND...
What is going to happen with the 17" setup on my Roadrunner??
I am going to line up a 17" (or 18" whatever the largest diameter will fit) flex fan for the Roadrunner, in case I have problems with high temp cooling system issues.

 

[vintage chromoly]

The joys of modifying our cars.

hang in there Bio. We’ve all been in a pickle before.

 

[Dan64]

I remember hearing something about guys using a clutch fan from a Jaguar or something due to them being shorter?. Sucks about the radiator, sorry to hear that.

 

[Fury Fan]

That really sucks, Bio.
For the electric fans on your RR, you could mount them to the front of the radiator, sans the box shroud, until you figure out a more permanent solution. (I presume you wouldn't want the big elec fan visible thru teh grille)
Fans are usually designed to be either a puller thru a radiator, or a blower pushing thru, therefore not as effective being cross-purposed. But would give you more space and better than nothing?

 

[beanhead]

Dammit!
Yeah these things move around....
I told the story a few years back when it happened, but there was a really bad train crossing that I went over out in a rural area, I just couldn't slow down enough when I realized how much the tracks were exposed and when I "landed" the fan completely chowdered the bottom of the radiator, immediately causing all coolant to go buh-bye and leaving me stranded....thank goodness for AAA and flatbeds!

 

[62MAX]

I am so distraught...CURSED!!!

I put the clutch fan back on today. Keep in mind that this is the 2nd time I have personally done this.
Last time it worked better than the dual 12" fans and shroud. No "220 plus degree" temps. I thought I'd like it to be a little cooler sitting still at idle, but it was only in the 190s-200
So today I drove a few blocks, about 2 or 3 minutes to the backroad highway. Hit the back highway, 55 MPH limit, and that's what I drove. AC on, temp in the high 180s-low 190s. I don't think it got hotter than 192.
Stop and go through a few lights, still good, 187-192. Jump up on the highway, 72 MPH and 3,600 RPMs...
ALL GOOD!?!
The 421GOAT was rollin! and I was chillin' AC still on BLAST...Max temp was 197 and that was the same route that took the temps over 220 degrees yesterday. I'm good I'm thinking, I'll mod the factory shroud and it will maybe work a little better, but staying under 200 degrees is GREAT.
DAMN ELECTRIC FANS!!!
THEN I GET HOME, AND I SEE THE ½" OF SPACE BETWEEN THE FAN CLUTCH FACE AND ALUMINUM RADIATOR WASN'T A BIG ENOUGH SPACE!!
The face of the fan clutch somehow closed the ½" gap and chewed its way into my "new" aluminum radiator...coolant spraying everywhere, dripping off the hood...

So I have torn up my new Cold Case radiator, I've paid about $350 for each of the electric fan and shroud assemblies, another $100 for the Dakota Digital PAC-2800BT fan control module, and about another $60 for 2 circuit breakers and 2 relays.
Now I'm looking for TWO 17" FLEX FANS because I have serious doubts about the 17" electric fan on my Roadrunner, and I only have 3" of space between the radiator and the Wraptor pulleys.
Looks like almost ALL 17" FLEX FANS ARE OUT OF STOCK....EVERYWHERE!
I'm going to put the factory radiator in the GTO tomorrow and see how much space I have between the fan clutch face and the radiator. If I don't have at least an inch of space, I can't run the clutch fan.
TWO ELECTRIC FAN AND SHROUD KITS
TWO CIRCUIT BREAKERS AND RELAYS
ONE DAKOTA DIGITAL FAN MODULE
ONE COLD CASE RADIATOR
AT LEAST 4 DAYS UNDER THE HOOD...
and what do I get??
One torn up radiator, 2 fan and shroud kits to return. A Dakota Digital fan control module that I don't need, and the relays and circuit breakers I can't use.
AND...
What is going to happen with the 17" setup on my Roadrunner??
I am going to line up a 17" (or 18" whatever the largest diameter will fit) flex fan for the Roadrunner, in case I have problems with high temp cooling system issues.

From another forum,and if you do some research,it is quite common ,just saying.

/quote;
Flex fans move a lot of air and cool well when properly setup in a shroud. They are dangerous however and love to break at high rpm. Mine sees 7400 all the time, but it pretty much flattens out at that speed.
/quote:

 

[biomedtechguy]

Ok. Thanks for the replies.
The 2x 12" fan setup was pull only, rated at 1,400 CFM each. Now some have said that you add them together, and I don't have the time to learn fluid dynamics, but that doesn't "seem" right.
The 16" 2,500 CFM setup I just had on the GTO that failed to keep the temps down at speed, was also a puller. I don't know what the other 70 people were working with, but it sure as hell didn't work on the GOAT, and that has me very worried that the 17" 2,600 CFM just like it (basically) won't keep my 440 6bbl cool, but IF it does, I still have an aluminum 541 at close to 700HP to think about.
If I can find 2 full bladed flex fans, I'm going to order 2, one for each car.
Like this: (blade position not necessarily correct, just for appearance and blade style)
The GTO has a polished aluminum Wraptor, so:

And the Roadrunner has a Black Diamond Wraptor finish, so:

BUT I'm not sure I can get them, anywhere, by Wednesday.

 

[moparedtn]

I wanna say the "short" fan clutch is the Hayden 2947?
I have a whole thread on here somewhere from 3 years ago, when I went through my cooling system
and fought heat demons, too. It had all sorts of dimensions, measurements, use of factory shroud
on a fat Griffin aluminum radiator, what fans would fit/not fit, all that fun.
In my case, I wound up not having the desired 3/4" clear from fan to radiator even using the shorty
clutch, so I'm direct drive with only a small spacer. Fan half in/half out of shroud lip.
I used the fan from Summit that @coloradodave recommended (I want to say it's 18"?) and probably
could have gotten away with a 19" (shroud opening is 20").

 

[moparedtn]

P.S. Put me down for never using a flex fan again in this lifetime.
I had one of those shatter on me at speed many years ago (and it was brand name,
high dollar stuff) and destroy hoses, belts, radiator in the car while going down the
street.
One shard actually came through the hood!
Uhhhh, no thanks. Shrapnel ain't my bag....

 

[493 Mike]

Mike, are you using a later k member in your 65'?

Alterkation front suspension. But, to clarify, my engine is set back as far as practical with stock firewall. To do that I had to replace the transmission tunnel.
Mike

 

[Dan64]

Alterkation front suspension. But, to clarify, my engine is set back as far as practical with stock firewall. To do that I had to replace the transmission tunnel.
Mike

Ok, thanks, so you moved or didn't use the "stock" RMS motor mounts?. Just asking because it looks like you have a lot of room between fan and engine. Nice set up.

 

[Dan64]

Can any of you guys with earlier/ later b bodies either confirm or debunk the idea that earlier ( pre 66') b bodies have tighter fan to radiator space then 66' and later?

 

[62MAX]

Can any of you guys with earlier/ later b bodies either confirm or debunk the idea that earlier ( pre 66') b bodies have tighter fan to radiator space then 66' and later?

How about 62, three core, 7 blade,half way in the shroud,1" spacer.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Well, I had the guy who worked on the GTO come by to address a couple of issues. I asked him what the process is to access the water pump divider plate, and the 2 identical required gaskets will be at O'Reillys after 3PM. Basically, there is the front half of the pump housing and impeller, and moving towards the engine, a gasket, the divider plate, a gasket, and the back half of the water pump. I will HAVE TO do this for peace of mind, because I still believe that the gap between the water pump impeller vanes and the divider plate opening edge and the domed curve of the plate are too far apart for optimal efficiency.
BUT
Since I hope to be at the first day of Cruisin the Coast ONE WEEK from today, I am going to:
*Remove the damaged Cold Case radiator (done)
*Remove the clutch fan
*Install the 17" flex fan the guy had, and just gave me. It's the EXACT fan I wanted and can't find available immediately!
*Take the same test drive.
I expect that will work, and if so, if it doesn't run much over 200°, that will do for now!!
AFTER Cruisin the Coast, I will take off and lay aside (w/the hoses still attached) the Wraptor AC compressor, power steering pump, 2 pulleys, and bracket. THAT is A LOT of work, but unfortunately I HAVE to do it because I still believe that gap needs to be closed, and IF I find that to be true, and it runs much cooler afterwards, then I may try going back to the 16" electric fan.
Another telling factor would be when I get the Roadrunner running later this week, IF the 17" electric fan and shroud assembly keeps my 440 6bbl running cool, all the more reason to know the GTO running hot is something OTHER THAN the fan, and the mechanical fan making it run cooler is just because it needs that extra cooling because of some other problem.

 

[wagonman]

Hey Steve let me look in my stash might have a GM clutch style fan I can donate to the cause. By Wednesday is cutting it close.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Hey Steve let me look in my stash might have a GM clutch style fan I can donate to the cause. By Wednesday is cutting it close.

The clutch fan has not been damaged, only the aluminum radiator, and I have the factory radiator to use. I spent probably 2½ hours driving to Lowe's, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, and 2 different auto parts stores, looking for 4x FOUR or 4¼ INCH long 5/16ths 24 (fine thread) bolts, to go through the 2" fan spacer and the 1" CVF spacer. I need that much space to clear the pulleys and accessories. Guess what? LOTS of lengths in coarse thread, but EVERY store stopped ½" short of what I needed.
Today is Sunday, and there was a time when NO hardware could be sold in Louisiana on Sunday...
Anyway, tomorrow I will either find the bolts I need or put the clutch fan on with the factory radiator that has more room between it and the radiator than the aluminum radiator. Then test drive on the highway...
OR
I got the 2 gaskets today to take the water pump apart to check that gap.
IF that is the problem, it's going to take a lot to get to it, but then I should be able to use the electric fan.
I won't know if the same style electric fan, but 17" vs 16" with 2,600 CFM vs 2,500 AND a bigger opening because of the shape is going to work on my Roadrunner until the middle or end of the week. IF it works fine for the Roadrunner, then I really suspect it's something else (like the gap in the water pump) on the GTO.
I started asking about getting these cars done late December early January.
I'm going to NEED a week off!!

 

[wagonman]

Got a 7 blade 19 inch not sure if it is GM or Mopar no numbers on it. If you can use it it’s yours

 

[493 Mike]

Ok, thanks, so you moved or didn't use the "stock" RMS motor mounts?. Just asking because it looks like you have a lot of room between fan and engine. Nice set up.

Well, there is more to the story: I ordered wedge motor mounts but, it turns out Indy uses Hemi mounts on their Max block so I cut off the wedge mount brackets and welded on RMS Hemi brackets. That let me choose any set back I wanted. Bill Reilly treated me very nice and swapped out the insulators at no charge and even paid the shipping! No charge for the Hemi brackets either. I really appreciated his understanding/treatment of the situation!
Mike