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perofrmance builds without the headers!

MikeyT

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Hi All,

Since the idea of installing headers on my 1972 440 road runner has me convulsing like a baby on the floor and breaking out into cold sweats. I thought I would ask an odd question.

Does anyone have a performance recipe for putting a B body into the high 12's with manifolds.

Here is my thoughts, opinions please

10:1 compression ratio
440 source stealth heads
comp cam XL 268 cam
holly street dominator intake
850 DB holley
3800 stall torque converter
4:10 gears 275/60/15 drag radials?

Does this get me close?


Any other thoughts?


Mike
 
I don't understand what the big deal is with the headers. I have put on so many long tubes on big blocks in B bodies ive lost count . I think you are over reacting. I can put a set on in 2 -3 hours without beating them up. especially the BB hedmans, you don't have to even run the centerlink through them. .....my $0.02
 
Last edited:
I support "super77se" on this.
You are causing yourself stress.
"Self induced stress"
I had a Bud come over and help me in the 70 Superbee HEMI "Header" install.
Of course, I installed TTI headers.
Best fit for a MOPAR!
And, it was not difficult.

Remember this: I'm a BIG fan of stock appearences and I was convinced to go "Stock Exhaust"...but:
RustyRatRod, Budnicks, Propwash, Super77se, AlleyoopMV, Moparstuart, Roadrunnerman, and the entire Forum assured me the Headers were the way to go in my application.
I'm GLAD I followed their guidance.

It is not hard to install your headers...you will LEARN many things.
As Budnicks always says: "Fill your Library before you fill your garage"
(good words to live buy, do your research and then make an educated decision, not an emotional decision)
[Unless we are talking about Pussy...then never use your rational judgement...LOL]
 
I don't understand the Stealth heads. Yeah they'll work and all but they are not necessary to get a big block into the high 12s.....or even mid 12s for that matter. Your combo sounds ok except for two things, IMO.....well....maybe three. lol

Nowhere near enough camshaft. The comp 268? Really? lol Here's how I would do it.

Ported 906s with 2.14 and 1.81 valves.
Get your compression to 10:1 with whatever piston it takes. I think the old Six Pack piston can do it with the right deck height and head gasket.
This cam: http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=719&sb=2 Adjustable rockers and correct length pushrods.
You'll have better luck with a split duration camshaft running mannyfolds. Also, that line of cams from Comp is ground with MoPar .903 lifter specific lobes, not chebbie lobes like all the other lines.
Lastly, IMHO, I think you could use more converter and more gear. I would go with about a 4500 and a 4.56. Go with a GOOD brand converter and you can have some of the best of both worlds. It will be tight on the street and will flash good on the strip. That's what it's gonna take to get that heavy car to run. But headers sure would benefit the hell out of it.
 
I agree with rusty on everything except convertor and gears. I,d go with 34-3800 stall and 4.10s. That combos gonna make plenty power below 5k and with 4.10 you can drive highway when you have to. Jmo
 
I have to agree that headers have never been that much trouble for me. But if you dont want to use headers and prefer the manifolds then thats fine. Look into the FAST and Pure Stock cars as they cant run headers and they run very fast without them. If you post on the "Moparts" board under the "Unlawful" race section you will have some of the guys who race using manifolds talk to you. The one guy who builds all kinds of Mopar engines and wrote a very good book on bigblock Mopar engines "Andy F" has done alot of testing using exh manifolds and he will tell you hands down the MP .528 mechanical cam is just about the best cam he has tested using exh manifolds that works better then any other cam even in real strong builds. Yep the MP .528 cam is a very good cam to use with exh manifolds. I could get into alot of info but your best bet is talk to the guys who run and race with exh manifolds and make great power. Some of the cars have even ran in the high 9's with exh manifolds. Post your question on the Moparts board in the Unlawful race and eng section and talk with the guys who run very good using exh manifolds if you are really set on using the exh manifolds. If you have a problem posting on there just let me know with a PM or my email at ([email protected]) and I can get you in touch with some of them. Ron
 
Hi All,

Since the idea of installing headers on my 1972 440 road runner has me convulsing like a baby on the floor and breaking out into cold sweats. I thought I would ask an odd question.

Does anyone have a performance recipe for putting a B body into the high 12's with manifolds.

Here is my thoughts, opinions please

10:1 compression ratio
440 source stealth heads
comp cam XL 268 cam
holly street dominator intake
850 DB holley
3800 stall torque converter
4:10 gears 275/60/15 drag radials?

Does this get me close?


Any other thoughts?


Mike
you don't need a big converter or low gears. actually 3.23's or 3.55's will do. i wouldn't use the 268 cam; it's too short with too much advance. the big summit cam with 114lsa would work better, especially with an adjustable valve train. stealth heads are o.k. , but ported big valve iron will work. use quench dome pistons for open chamber heads. good mandrel bent exhaust with straight thru mufflers are a plus. also, good fuel delivery, not necessarily an electric pump; a good mechanical will do. i'd ditch the street dominator for edelbrock rpm.
 
Performance 101

Most is covered already & it's a heavy car... Performance 101...LOL.... 1st & foremost... Get some professional cylinder head porting done, port the exhaust manifolds too, they will be a big choke point if you don't {still will be but not as bad} & if you absolutely have to run them {IMHFO your giving up some serious power/TQ, even a shorty header will make more power, than the Iron Manifolds even when ported}, get a mandrel bent exhaust tubing w/either an X or H-pipe installed in a 3" exhaust, w/free flowing mufflers, get a K&N X-treem or other brand of gauze type air filter {the engine is just a big air pump, what comes in, must get out}, get a "How to tune a Holley carburetor CD/Book" & an assortment of larger accel. pump discharge squirter's, maybe even a better set of billet metering blocks, like from Quickfuel or other supplier, maybe even 50cc accel. pumps &/or different pump cams assortments, better fuel pump {or even a electric free flowing fuel pump} & quality fuel filter, larger sending unit 3/8" minimum or #6A/N lines & adjustable "bypass style" fuel regulator preferably, a much hotter Chrome box at-least CEI ignition & hotter coil, w/ultra low ohm resistance plug wires to get all the spark to the plugs you can get, then make sure you get a camshaft compatible with the iron manifolds/instead of headers {if you go that route}, I would highly suggest you talk to an expert camshaft mfgr., matching light weight valve train & get there recommendations, last is traction aids, better shocks, CalTracs possibly, maybe some 4.30:1 gears {with a tall tire will still be street drivable}, to help a heavy car moving much easier & along with your sticky drag radials @ a minimum {taller & wider is better}, for when you at race track, light weight rims & performance tires, lighten anything you can that is reciprocating or moving weight {Crank, rods, pistons, valves, retainers, etc.}, lighter/stronger driveshaft, better/quicker shifting transmission, add a quality deep pan & trans-cooler also to help keep it cool with a higher stall converter... Lighten the car up, where ever possible, "it's all about power to weight ratios", lighter the car, the less power it take to move it faster, a better HV or other style quality oil pump & higher capacity baffled w/windage tray, in bigger/better oil pan, then move the battery to passenger side of the trunk, for much better weight transfer... There are cast iron headers like the 413-426ci MW/Super Stock 62-65 B-Body iron, they ain't cheap like $900, they are very heavy manifolds too, but they will flow "much better" than any of the other iron HP manifolds... Remember the engine is just a small part of getting it down the track, having the car set up & working properly, is just as important to getting lower ET's.... Not all this is necessary, to run 12's but all is recommended, especially on a heavy car, especially since your already handicapping yourself with the iron manifolds choking down the engine from being able to freely breath... Headers would certainly help to make power & torque, that will let the engine breath much better, opens up far more options for making power easily.... There are a ton of books out there, to get the much needed knowledge, not waste a bunch of money doing things twice, it's such a small investment & you will have them to refer back to, when needed... There is also a few decent books, especially for the level of performance your looking for, that are kind of, slightly outdated, but will gives very useful/good formulas/guidelines to go certain speeds/ets, at a certain weight at certain HP/TQ/Ci.... Mopar Performance "Chassis 9th Edition" #P5007160 for Speed Secrets & Performance for Modifications for Mopars RWD racing cars... MP "Engines 9th Edition" #P5249704 for tons of Speed secrets/modifications for Mopar race engines... try Mancini Racing for these books & many more
 

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Mike,
I ran high 11.8's with 906,78cc chamber cut and home touch up port,with a purple 509 cam 8:1 comp 4200 stall an 3.91 gears with 275 MT radials,oh yeah had a holley hp750 vac sec carb and hooker comp headers. Same motor bored to 0.055 over and 10.4:1 comp and BG825 double pumper ran 11.88,then i fitted stealth heads.The purple cam with 108 lobe seprration will not really run power brakes fully.
This was in a 3776lb 68 Satellite
Tex
 
Tex,

That sounds like an awesome build!

Mike
 
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