RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
It may be. That would suck. Another reason to go solid.
Please help, lifter rattle won't go away
- Thread starter 747mopar
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Just checked Comps web page and yes the small and big block mopars take the same lifters (summits page was a little misleading) so I guess that's out. I can see the advantage of the solid lifters but this is a cruiser with low maintenance in mind. Is there anything that could restrict oil to them, I don't see how especially since I have my oil pressure gauge in the back of the driver side oil passage (75 psi).
80fbody
Member
Was this a cam swap in a running motor or a complete rebuild? Could there be a bearing issue or missing plug somewhere?
RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
I don't give a rat's *** what Comp says. The early big blocks took a different lifter and longer pushrod. It's not a CIA secret. Since they made way more 68 up big blocks, the industry pretty much made the later lifters and pushrods the standard.
Total rebuild.
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Your correct, I don't think the guy I was talking to new anything "they clearly show the lifter you refer to on they're sight".
RustyRatRod
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What he may have meant was that Comp only makes the one lifter, but I believe even that's wrong. What's so bad is, the influx of chinkesium. It's everywhere. I'll not be surprised to learn that Comp has shut down and sold their cam grinders to some bullshit company overseas.
69a100
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Just so I'm on the same page here. When you say Early Big Blocks, does this include 383's as well as 440's? And how early is early, Pre 68 or even earlier like 65 or 6? Thanks
BB and SB engines do NOT use the same lifter.
Small Block
318 HA-2011 67-90
HA-2269 85-89
HA-2269 90-03 (Magnum)
340 HA-2011 68-73
360 HA-2011 71-88
HA-2269 89-91
HA-2269 92-03 (Magnum)
Big Block
361 HA-812 58-68
HA-976 68-77
383 HA-812 59-67
HA-976 68-71
400 HA-976
413 HA-812 59-71
HA-976 72-77
440 HA-812 66-67
HA-976 68-80
The major difference between years and lifters is the height of the pushrod cup.
HT413
Semi Pro Bowler
Thanks for the post. I'll be selecting cam and lifters here in the next few weeks and I had no idea there was a difference.
69a100
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And these I'm assumming part #'s are who's?
ZR9B
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For what its worth...I put a lunatti cam lifters...from day one they never stayed pumped up...took them apart cleaned them pumped them by hand like I always do and they never held up.....I bought all new high energy lifters and it was better but still noisy...I have a feeling the break in went bad on me.....I just bought a new cam and will try again...
The "HA" is just a manufacturers letter designation. I am not sure who's they are, but the number is the same for all. For example:
Wolverine lifter HL-2011
Melling lifter JB-2011
Sealed Power HT-2011R
etc...
Today though, as I looked in each brands catalog: Crane, Comp Cams, Clevite, all seemed to have their own number branding. Perhaps to make it more confusing, or to try to set them off from the crowd. Essentially, they are the same lifter mechanically so that it will work in the proper application. If you have an application you want me to look up and recommend, please send me a PM, and I will see what I can do for you.
Dave
Precision Machine Service
RustyRatRod
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Absolutely correct. I'm tryin real hard to splain it but it ain't stickin. lol
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I believe so, yes.
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I believe so, yes.
69a100
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Well either these guys don't know squat or something is really dicked up with lifters in general? Just sayin! http://usaperform.com/hydraulic-lifters-chrysler-p-827.html
RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
They do "fit". But as stated several times, the pre 68 engines take a different lifter and longer pushrod. What the industry has done is simply gone with the later lifter as the industry standard and takes for granted everyone will run the later pushrod. In fact, most people who build a MoPar to begin with go with a custom pushrod for their application. I know I will have to for example. I am building a 383 but am going to run the Howards EMD direct oiling solid lifters which have.........guess what.........wait for it...........a different pushrod cup height, so they require a custom length pushrod. Since MoPars come from the factory with non adjustable valve train and most people who build a serious MoPar engine go with an adjustable valve train, pushrods need to be custom length anyway, especially when head and block milling and different thickness head gaskets are used. I guess the industry figures custom length pushrods as part of the equation.
I reckon the lesson here is if you want a stock length pushrod to work in your engine, build a stock engine.
I reckon the lesson here is if you want a stock length pushrod to work in your engine, build a stock engine.
Well, look at the link for a moment. The call them hydraulic lifters (HA-2011-16), and have a pic. Click on the pic to make it larger for a moment. Look at the lifter plunger on the right, and you will notice (or should) that it it a pic of a mechanical lifter, not hydraulic. Also, take a look at their note:
NOTE: At initial start keep the engine at 1500-32500 rpm for 5 to 10 minutes.
Notice any problems with that statement?? Other than the typo (32500 rpm
)? But, I guess they are correct because you can't put anything on the internet that isn't true. I saw a pic of Rusty in another thread, and I would swear he was a French model... :eusa_dance:They will fit diametrically, but the internals are at different heights with different length push rods in stock form. If you used adjustable rocker arms with the proper end push rods, or used adjustable push rods, it should work fine. BUT, for a stock setup, the proper lifter-pushrod-rocker arm must be used in order to prevent problems like this.
69a100
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Like I said, just sayin!
OK Rusty, what you say makes good sense, but the plot thicken's so here goes as I'm trying to help Tuck here.
His rattaling 383 has a cast # of 2468130-4 which shows a period of use from 59-71. Being a "4" makes it a 64 and it came outta a 65 Polara/Monaco. I couldn't find a actual date on the block but that checks out being in that period of time. So, with that said would he either have to use the older lifters for 64's or could he stick with what he has and use adjustable pushrods, or just use all valvetrain compenets for say a 70 motor? Hope this makes sense? Just trying to help troubleshoot his knock.
OK Rusty, what you say makes good sense, but the plot thicken's so here goes as I'm trying to help Tuck here.
His rattaling 383 has a cast # of 2468130-4 which shows a period of use from 59-71. Being a "4" makes it a 64 and it came outta a 65 Polara/Monaco. I couldn't find a actual date on the block but that checks out being in that period of time. So, with that said would he either have to use the older lifters for 64's or could he stick with what he has and use adjustable pushrods, or just use all valvetrain compenets for say a 70 motor? Hope this makes sense? Just trying to help troubleshoot his knock.
RustyRatRod
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I don't how else to explain it.....but I will try once more. There is no difference whatsoever in the block as far as lifters go. The block doesn't care which lifter is used it in, whether it's a 59 block or a 78 block. It makes zero difference. The 67 and earlier big blocks take one kinda lifter and pushrod and the 68 and up take another type lifter and pushrod. The pushrod and lifters are completely interchangeable from late to early, as long as you use the pushrods that match the lifters. Early lifters can go in any big block provided the early longer pushrods are used with them. Late lifters can go in any engine as long as the correct late shorter pushrods are used in them. What you cannot do is mix early lifters with later pushrods or later lifters with early pushrods. I suspect that's what's happened here, simply because chinkesium or not, it is very unlikely you would get as many seemingly bad lifters as what's showing up here. Is it possible? Yeah, I guess, but it's not very probable. I want to help Tuck too.......but let's not intertwine the two problems. They are both completely difficult as it is, especially trying to diagnose them online.
69a100
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Hey, not a problem as well as I didn't really want to hi-jack the thread. Just the subject came up and wanted to get some clarification on it. I guess Tuck will have to cruze thru his reciepts to see what he's got and scratch his head. Thanks for the education on this, carry on!
RustyRatRod
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Please don't NOT participate here......maybe I'm in the minority. I cannot keep up but with one discussion at a time. Hard for me to concentrate. I didn't want to get um mixed up in my mind is all. This lifter stuff is confrooshin enough as it is.
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