RB 440 blower motor

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Interesting discussion going on and some good info being brought up. I don't really ever plan on running a roots blower but I'm interested in learning about them just the same.

I guess it's a little off topic since Wedge said he wants more of a pro-street roots blown style car/engine, but I'm planning on building a 440 to run FAST or Megasquirt efi and an intercooled procharger hopefully next winter. Chose to go that direction because my car will be driven a lot and would like to go to the strip fairly often. Given those requirements a procharged, intercooled, efi setup makes more sense for me as far as reliability and longevity of the engine as well as the power I could get out of the setup. Plus it'll be fun when the average "not too bright" tupperware-mobile driver wants to go light to light and might not realize there's a supercharger under the hood haha.

Anyway sorry for wandering off topic, I just wanted to join in more for the info being brought up about streetable hp and engine building for boost. Good luck with the build Wedge

 

[Hemi Rebel]

Turbo cars are harder to stage, than a blown car, if you thinking of making a race car, if you want to leave on boost & especially if it's on kill... Other than that IMO there's no really big disadvantages, to either... Here's a few food for thought items... If your on a tighter budget, you can save money & swap meet purchase either one, I've seen allot more cheap {usually probably because they're worn out} turbo stuff lately, than cheap {usually probably worn out} Roots or Centrifugal Blower stuff too... I've never seen a cheap boosted engine of any kind, last for any period of time, with a centrifugal or roots supercharger or let alone a turbo... none are cheap set up done correctly, used or new.... Turbos can create a ton of under-hood heat also, you can use shields or coolers to alleviate some of that heat... for a turbo combo; You will need to fab up a custom exhaust manifolds & system there's no bolt on stuff for any MoPars, or possibly a custom set of headers {that could be a chore & costly too}, you will need to fab up cold outside air inlet tubes also {have room for the routing of the air inlet tubes also, could be an issue with a tight engine bay, with accessories etc.}, if you don't want hot under-hood heat going thru the intake, causing loss of power or detonation issues... If you want a turbo to live, you need to keep the turbo spool bearing cool with a constant supply of oil & a way to cool it back down/oil cooler... IMO it's a must to have an Inner-Cooler with a turbo set-up too, to cool the air charge, or your just putting a hot exhaust heated charge of air into the motor, the size & were it's mounted can effect turbo lag too... a waste-gate/purge valve to get rid of boost when you let off the throttle on/after hard blasts is a good idea too & to make sure your not building more boost that your combo is capable of handling, ultimately grenade-ing the bottom end... Like I've said before, everything needs to match what your doing, neither of the 3 is a out of the box & go run it deal {unless you spend the money & buy a complete kit from a reputable supplier, either still will need tuning & ignition upgrades & boost-retard is a great idea}, even with an EFI set-up & that ain't cheap, unless you have the knowledge, fab skill & computer/electronics skills... or the ability to make your own stuff, especially on an old style V-8 especially a MoPar there's nothing out there, but it can be done... just do your due diligence/research... have fun, there's nothing like a boosted combo as long as it's done correctly, otherwise you'll hate it... I may add another point blowers make power from idle thru "what ever RPM your specific combo" can withstand, you don't need to spool a blower to make power it's always there, but it takes some power to drive the belt... Either one will benefit from water/methanol injection {windshield washer fluid too} &/or inner-cooling.... Either of the 3 is impressive when done correctly, especially for a visual impact, Just weight your likes & dislikes, have fun what ever you decide & keep us posted on progress.... my $0.02 cents

I have to add that ever since someone posted the roadkill episode with the 68 charger I have been hooked on watching it. I went back and started with episode 1 and have been catching up. There are a few bonus episodes that are viewer question and answer shows and during the regular shows where they say on several occasions that the crusher camaro is the most fun car they have driven. And they have driven some serious ****. That dude has a 70 hemi super bee. The f-bomb camaro. God only knows what else. And the the blown camaro is their pick as the most fun. For whatever that's worth. They even put in a holley fuel injected LS motor that went faster(very low 10's), got 17mpg and was by all accounts a better package but they talked about going back to the blown big block. So, ya know. Just food for thought.

 

[Budnicks]

Interesting discussion going on and some good info being brought up. I don't really ever plan on running a roots blower but I'm interested in learning about them just the same.

I guess it's a little off topic since Wedge said he wants more of a pro-street roots blown style car/engine, but I'm planning on building a 440 to run FAST or Megasquirt efi and an intercooled procharger hopefully next winter. Chose to go that direction because my car will be driven a lot and would like to go to the strip fairly often. Given those requirements a procharged, intercooled, efi setup makes more sense for me as far as reliability and longevity of the engine as well as the power I could get out of the setup. Plus it'll be fun when the average "not too bright" tupperware-mobile driver wants to go light to light and might not realize there's a supercharger under the hood haha.

Anyway sorry for wandering off topic, I just wanted to join in more for the info being brought up about streetable hp and engine building for boost. Good luck with the build Wedge

sounds like a fun build keep us posted, maybe start another thread on here in the racers section... so we don't have to search thru all the restoration builds {as much as I like reading & responding to all of them still too}, this would be more specific to racing, with your stated type of build...
good luck, have fun

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

5 lbs of boost in the street still gets you over 700 HP.Very hard to hook that much power on the street.
Track day,change a pulley and some real octane.10 lbs is over 900 hp and as far as I have tried so far.
Take a lot to harness the power.Have gone in the 6.3's in the 8th,car weighs over 3800 lbs:confused2:

 

[Budnicks]

5 lbs of boost in the street still gets you over 700 HP.Very hard to hook that much power on the street.
Track day,change a pulley and some real octane.10 lbs is over 900 hp and as far as I have tried so far.
Take a lot to harness the power.Have gone in the 6.3's in the 8th,car weighs over 3800 lbs:confused2:

she's got to be an E-Ticket ride, fun as hell...

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

It's a HOOT and a handful when the go pedal is pushed.
I have also been looking at the IAS { http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/ } and Snow performance { http://www.snowperformance.net/ }. This water meth injection seems too good to be true:love10:

Any kind of boost heats the inlet air up and at some point depending on your combo,more boost will not net any gain due to IAT's.These water meth injection systems will raise that to a higher point.

 

[wedge69]

As of rite now I have a line on some parts and looking into the motor barts also. I did finish mocking/Fabing one of my fenderwell headers. Want to post a pic on here but the cheap *** phone I have won't e,mail them so I will snap some on my dig cam soon.
Also finished my valve covers for the breather fitttings. I also got a new fuel cell on e/bag for CHEAP ! bulding a can to set it part way through the floor so I will have room in my trunk.I will keep you up on the work !

 

[Budnicks]

As of rite now I have a line on some parts and looking into the motor barts also. I did finish mocking/Fabing one of my fenderwell headers. Want to post a pic on here but the cheap *** phone I have won't e,mail them so I will snap some on my dig cam soon.
Also finished my valve covers for the breather fitttings. I also got a new fuel cell on e/bag for CHEAP ! bulding a can to set it part way through the floor so I will have room in my trunk.I will keep you up on the work !

sounds great keep us updated, maybe post up some photos of your project, when you get a chance, I'd like to see what your doing & what you end up with at-least & I'm pretty sure there're others here too, that would like to see it also...

 

[Bull1tt]

As of rite now I have a line on some parts and looking into the motor barts also. I did finish mocking/Fabing one of my fenderwell headers. Want to post a pic on here but the cheap *** phone I have won't e,mail them so I will snap some on my dig cam soon.
Also finished my valve covers for the breather fitttings. I also got a new fuel cell on e/bag for CHEAP ! bulding a can to set it part way through the floor so I will have room in my trunk.I will keep you up on the work !

I bought a blower setup that was on a 440. Have gone a different direction but still have the .030 over forged pistons I will sell them.

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5 lbs of boost in the street still gets you over 700 HP.Very hard to hook that much power on the street.
Track day,change a pulley and some real octane.10 lbs is over 900 hp and as far as I have tried so far.
Take a lot to harness the power.Have gone in the 6.3's in the 8th,car weighs over 3800 lbs:confused2:

I met you at Carlisle last year, was with the Hemi A-body guys. What rods are you running in your engine? I'm looking at running 5lb boost. Any of your engine build specs would help.

 

[wedge69]

I bought a blower setup that was on a 440. Have gone a different direction but still have the .030 over forged pistons I will sell them.

Let me know on those pistons ? Who made them and are thay used and how old ??

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sounds great keep us updated, maybe post up some photos of your project, when you get a chance, I'd like to see what your doing & what you end up with at-least & I'm pretty sure there're others here too, that would like to see it also...

I have a post on this project under My not so stock roadrunner in the restoration section. Just look up my post's and you will see where I am at sofar.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I met you at Carlisle last year, was with the Hemi A-body guys. What rods are you running in your engine? I'm looking at running 5lb boost. Any of your engine build specs would help.[/QUOTE]


Callies 4.5 stroke,Diamond 8.5 pistons,Manley "H" beams,Comp roller.Siamesed block and iron stockish heads.

Here is 4 lbs of boost with very consevitive timing:eusa_whistle:

 

[wedge69]

Rite now I am looking at 440 source stroker asembly for the bottum end. Any thoughts ?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Rite now I am looking at 440 source stroker asembly for the bottum end. Any thoughts ?

Mixed reviews with their product.If you choose to go with them,your machinist must double check EVERTHING!!! I have heard some horror stories about cheap Chinese junk:eusa_whistle:

 

[wedge69]

I have heard bad things about the heads and water pump housing but not on the rotating asemblys ? Thats why i was asking here to see if anyone has or is running one.

 

[Budnicks]

I've had a couple of the Platinum {H-Beam rods} Series Stroker Rotating assemblies a 4.250" & 4.15" both for B-Low deck blocks {100% USA made} with great results, for a moderately priced stroker, they served the purpose, reasonably priced, great parts... There are better parts, but for nearly twice the price, if it's not an all out race engine & more of a toy, that's not going to be spun to the moon {I've been 8.58 @ 156 with a 479ci on 300 shot of N20, so they can make good respectable power, it has been together for about 9 years now & still running around Sacramento area somewhere, in a wicked Silver 68 RR}, they are a great alternative to the more expensive, Billet Crankshafts & Hi-$$$ crankshafts/rotating assemblies...

 

[wedge69]

Thats what I was looking at. I know you only get what you pay for but there's no reason to put a $2000 crank in a pro street toy. Now if I was Braket racing it that would be another story. I even saw that Mancini is selling a kit for around the same cost and it has eagle components in it.

 

[Budnicks]

IMHFO it seems allot of bad/wrong negative press is spread by allot of people on the internet, don't always believe what you read, some people have an agenda, it's not all cheap junk or Chinese crap... Yes the old original run of Stealth heads were really bad, kind of the only inexpensive head option originally why I tried them, I would use the RPM's instead "for a mild build to about 700hp", they are a better head to start with {great, even better if ported}, the Stealth's can be made better too, with some work & some extra costs {not sure about their water-pumps, never used one}... But everything I've gotten from www.440source.com has been made good, if something was bad, they stood behind the products, they did have a bad rap for a while, they have corrected 99% of the problems now, IIRC I believe it's under different ownership/management for quite a while now too {like 10 years or so}, it has been much better quality, customer service since then... They also have a 100% Made in the USA available parts & pieces too... good luck, what ever you decide...

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Thats what I was looking at. I know you only get what you pay for but there's no reason to put a $2000 crank in a pro street toy. Now if I was Braket racing it that would be another story. I even saw that Mancini is selling a kit for around the same cost and it has eagle components in it.

Nothing wrong with Mancini Racing stuff either the Eagle component stuff is really good too... I use Mancini Racing for a ton of my stuff, great people to deal with, for me anyway...

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I had used an Eagle internal balanced rotating assembly for my 318/390ci Magnum for my old 2wd 99 Dakota R/T Clone, a few years back... They were great quality parts... I spent as much on that little Magnum as a BB stroker

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

IMOP I try to buy USA products whenever possible. Nothing but USA products are in my engine,trans or rear.My race suit was made here also,but gloves & shoes are China.
I'm not sayin' overseas has a bad product.I have read where bearing surfaces needed to be corrected or sold as balanced when in fact it wasn't done properly or other parts that did not perform right.Some of those products were cast there and machined here. I'd rather spend the extra bucks and do it right the 1st time and hopefully save some grief later.:happy9:

 

[Sweet5ltr]

If blower setups are a dime a dozen why did you price them at 2 to 4 thousand above a turbo setup. I dont know about where you live, but everything around here has a turbo. Rare is the old school huffer.I dont know what the big deal is here. Its a matter of preference and the OP wants a blower. I want a blower. I like turbos too. Besides mopars I also play with Saabs. They are fun little turbo cars that can be built cheap and make good power. My next mopar build is probably gonna have a 5.7 hemi with a pair of worked td05h saab turbos on it. I have the hemi and saab parts easy to get. So just lay off. I mean, by your logic we should all just dump these dinosaurs we drive and buy modern cars cause it makes more sense to get as much or more hp with better fuel efficiency.

I priced them 2-4K above a turbo setup as that is how much they cost additionally. Price out a full kit from the blower shop. I am guessing it will be in the neighborhood of $6,500-$7,500. Then, add in your fuel system, etc. Blowers are not cheap, they look great as no one can disagree with that, but they are NOT street friendly nor create more power per/psi as they are highly inefficient compared to turbo's. With a turbo, toss in your 2.76-3.23 gear set (depending on tire size), factory converter, OOTB aluminum heads, single plane intake, near bone stock camshaft, and make an easy 700HP at 5,500-6,000RPM on pump fuel while cruising around town and have an EASY low 11 second sleeper in bone-stock trim.

With your build, you would be set with twin GT45' T4 chicom turbo's or a single BW S400 series T6. A single turbo that is chosen correctly will spool just as fast as twin units and make just as much, if not more power with less moving parts.

All I was implying to the original poster was to 'think outside the box'. No reason to get upset, I turbo'ed one of these dinosaur engines even though a 5.3 Chevy' with a T76 can build just as much, if not more power reliably.. 5.7/6.1 Mopars are not the best foundations for turbo builds internally, and honestly, a forged factory low-comp 400 or 440 makes a great starting base for a mild turbo build on a budget. No fancy parts needed.

 

[wedge69]

This is all good info and I see your point also. I am just not a big Turbo fan although thay are Very good power adders !
Every one runs something siferent and thats good. This post I Started was to get input and feed back Wich I think it has very well!
So to all thank you and I am still working on a plan !??!