Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

[Fran Blacker]

Wonder someone took a prick punch to stop bearing from spinning?

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Bold move throwing parts in the dishwasher!

 

[NoCar2023]

The same guy that bored and decked the block installed those cam bearings?

On the same block that had multiple cam failures?

I am concerned now.

Sorry, Greg, I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but if the cam bearings are loose in the block (spun), it is damaged....and he should have found that long before all the machine work.

 

[Kern Dog]

I knocked the bearing out. It turns out there is a small ridge at the front of the journal. Once the bearing was pressed past that, it was gouged and then fit loose in the rest of the journal.

No weld spatter...that was bearing grease from when I ran the cutter cam through yesterday. The pictures were deceiving.
The #5 journal also had a ridge at the front and had to be reinstalled from the back side.
It would suck to have to start over but I do have 3 other 440 blocks. I didn't have this problem with Clevite cam bearings. These are Dura Bond.

The dishwasher really cleaned the oil and grime....

The finish is duller but I'm okay with that. I needed them clean so I can paint them anyway.

 

[eldubb440]

Bold move throwing parts in the dishwasher!

lol, they'll probably be in the oven after paint

 

[Fran Blacker]

Don't know it this is possible or a hokey fix for loose cam beating. Knurl the bore of #5 (may not be possible), don't think knurling a babbit bearing would work. Put a thread out there about a fix.

 

[ckessel]

Don't forget get to run taps through all of the threaded holes to get the grundge etc out so that when its time to put bolts in, they all work better and torques up properly too. That will make cleaning the block again after necessary. I hope the cam bearing issue resolves itself will minimal/no setbacks.

 

[ckessel]

Greg, I thought about an earlier post you had about the stamped numbers and symbols on the pad. I know there were symbols denoting under/over size crank bearings, under/over size lifters etc. You may want to look at your FSM to see if maybe they had something for cam bearing issues.

 

[Kern Dog]

My machinist doesn't remember this block but I do. Each time I've had it in his shop, the cam bearing fitment has been an issue.
I rebuilt this engine in 2004, 2011 and 2022. I had to go back to my notebooks to confirm but each time there were 1 or 2 bearings that had to be installed from the back to go in right. This time, # 3 and #5 journals had a slight ridge at the front edge as if the boring bar didn't cut all the way through. When someone were to install a bearing, that ridge requires more force to press the bearing in place and it scrapes material off of the outside of it. Once past that ridge, the fit is loose due to having less material on the outer surface.

Great idea about running a tap through the threaded holes. I have a series of cleaning brushes that will be used too.
I'll see the man on Tuesday.

 

[69Bee]

Taps will actually remove metal affecting the bolt fit. You do enough motors that an ARP Thread Chaser set would be a nice addition to your tool box. They re-form the threads, and not cut them when chasing.

ARP 911-0006 ARP Thread Cleaning Chaser Sets | Summit Racing

 

[69sunfireGTX]

Sounds like it spun at some time and created a ridge. Not good.

My machinist doesn't remember this block but I do. Each time I've had it in his shop, the cam bearing fitment has been an issue.
I rebuilt this engine in 2004, 2011 and 2022. I had to go back to my notebooks to confirm but each time there were 1 or 2 bearings that had to be installed from the back to go in right. This time, # 3 and #5 journals had a slight ridge at the front edge as if the boring bar didn't cut all the way through. When someone were to install a bearing, that ridge requires more force to press the bearing in place and it scrapes material off of the outside of it. Once past that ridge, the fit is loose due to having less material on the outer surface.

 

[ckessel]

I went through a couple of my factory parts manuals earlier, 69 and 70/71. There is no notations about cam bearings with size changes due to machining issues. Only show them by position so thats good. I did look at crank stuff, usual bearing plus and minuses there. However the lifters were a bit of an eye opener. I knew about some tales of minor oversize on them but .030 over? WOW. Check those lifter bores friends!

 

[Kern Dog]

The machinist was set to reinstall the new cam bearing tomorrow but delayed it a week since his son (Who lives in his house) tested Positive.
There goes another week.
I took the crank, rods, pistons, rings, pin retainers and rod bearings to another shop for balancing. The man asked why I chose to use heavier pistons as if I intentionally sought them out to make things more difficult and expensive. I had no idea of what the old pistons weighed nor how much the new ones are. I'm not a racer and the thought of the pistons being a different weight did not even enter my mind. I'll have to pay closer attention to stuff like this for other engines I build.
The balance job will take a week at the very least.
I can't move forward without having all the stuff here anyway.

 

[padam]

The machinist was set to reinstall the new cam bearing tomorrow but delayed it a week since his son (Who lives in his house) tested Positive.
There goes another week.
I took the crank, rods, pistons, rings, pin retainers and rod bearings to another shop for balancing. The man asked why I chose to use heavier pistons as if I intentionally sought them out to make things more difficult and expensive. I had no idea of what the old pistons weighed nor how much the new ones are. I'm not a racer and the thought of the pistons being a different weight did not even enter my mind. I'll have to pay closer attention to stuff like this for other engines I build.
The balance job will take a week at the very least.
I can't move forward without having all the stuff here anyway.

If I have learned anything from the engine threads on this forum, it is to have a solid plan for your engine build.

 

[RemCharger]

If I have learned anything from the engine threads on this forum, it is to have a solid plan for your engine build.

Reminds me of a friend's story.
He was called in to a huge commercial new building.(he's a cabinet maker)
They were looking around checking out place, and he was asked about the cabinets along an out side wall.
He said, Well, we could do it, but do you want us to just make cutouts around the window openings that were made way too close to floor?
Or you do you want to call the building guys to come over and fix their stupid fuckup.
The main project guy didn't see the humor in it

 

[HawkRod]

My father-in-law taught me to install cam bearings one at a time, and after each bearing, to test it (he has "testing" camshafts).
So this way you can test each bearing as you install them and know which bearing has issues and address it right then and there. Also, anyone installing a cam bearing should be able to feel if the bearing is loose - you need to whack them fairly solidly to drive them in.

IMHO, a customer should never have an issue installing a cam if he has paid for cam bearings to be installed!

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

KD, since the motor's out, have you ever looked into adding an oil filter orientation offset? On my old non-mopar my motor had one and it made oil filter changes WAY easier. I've heard of them for our mopar motors, but have never seen one in person. Both your and my cars have suspension mod add-on goodies and it sure make things tight in there with the stock oil filter location and install direction.

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks, Dwayne but changing the filter hasn't posed much of a problem.
Hawk....I like this guy. He has been good to deal with except for the long wait times. I will seek out another shop for my next high performance build. I would feel better about my next engine being honed with a torque plate and balanced in house.

 

[Kern Dog]

I love the look of aluminum engine parts but they don't stay clean as long as I'd like. I decided to paint mine.
The water pump housing, intake and heads got primed, painted and clearcoated.

The clear I have is a matte finish. The level of gloss is determined by the ratio of clear to activator. I chose a semi-gloss sheen.

 

[Kern Dog]

I am now at a standstill until I get the rotating assembly balanced and the cam bearing installed. I ordered some brake kits from Dr Diff.
I weighed the 12" Cordoba rotor and associated brake parts.

27 lbs for the rotor and hub assembly!

Another 15 for the calipers, caliper bracket and bolts, brake pads and grease cap. 42 lbs in total. The Dr Diff 13" front brake kit does use a bigger rotor but also a custom aluminum hub, a steel caliper bracket and aluminum caliper. There may be some weight savings coming!