Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

[66 Sat]

It sucks if you're a "get the job done" type of guy and you're in limbo waiting for other people.
Now you've got this balancing issue to deal with too - the last crank I had balanced was about $600 AUD from memory. The mallory metal is very expensive, plus the labor costs of course. Hope you get it all sorted soon, I'm in a similar boat and I know how frustrating it is.

 

[Lefty71]

the answer is always "2 weeks! It'll take 2 weeks!"

Twoeeks, Twoeeks!! You sound like a parakeet!!

 

[70ChargerRT]

Delays, delays.....
The Machinist has had the engine for almost 2 months. WTF ?? It isn't like I needed extensive work for this build. The heads didn't need anything but a valve spring swap. The block only needed bore and hone and to mill the decks. No line boring, no grinding the bottoms of the bores for rod clearance since I did that in 2004. The pistons had to be swapped on the rods though. Still. 2 months???
Then....He said the new pistons are 100 grams heavier than the old Ross pistons requiring a REbalance job.


View attachment 1321227


He doesn't do balancing so once I do get the engine back, I have to find someone else to balance it all.

View attachment 1321228

Those pistons are beautiful! Some
Of these machinist and engine builders make me sick. They’ll always put your engine on hold if they see an opportunity to make a quick Buck on big dollars and then come up with some excuse why it’s taking so long to get your engine done. Im
Going to find me a reputable Mopar engine builder and get me a stroker short block put together. Don’t care if takes me a year or longer. I’m tired of these machinists and engine builders claiming they can do all brands when then don’t have a clue about Mopar engines.

 

[RemCharger]

Those pistons are beautiful! Some
Of these machinist and engine builders make me sick. They’ll always put your engine on hold if they see an opportunity to make a quick Buck on big dollars and then come up with some excuse why it’s taking so long to get your engine done. Im
Going to find me a reputable Mopar engine builder and get me a stroker short block put together. Don’t care if takes me a year or longer. I’m tired of these machinists and engine builders claiming they can do all brands when then don’t have a clue about Mopar engines.

You should start a machine shop and only do cheap go broke quick jobs.
Start by telling the main returning customers with buckets of cash that you don't need their money. Rent/bils/equipment/wages will now be paid by "buttons and smiles jobs".

 

[Kern Dog]

I'm sure that there are stories about bad experiences from both sides.
My machinist is a good guy. His prices are always fair. He is semi-retired though. I know that when I retire, my urgency to do things may drop off a bit too. He works maybe 10 hours a week. He didn't speak of that many other projects of his in the shop so I thought mine would only take a few weeks.
The need for balancing is something that I didn't expect. He makes no money from that since he doesn't have the tools there to do it.

 

[beanhead]

I'm sure that there are stories about bad experiences from both sides.
My machinist is a good guy. His prices are always fair. He is semi-retired though. I know that when I retire, my urgency to do things may drop off a bit too. He works maybe 10 hours a week. He didn't speak of that many other projects of his in the shop so I thought mine would only take a few weeks.
The need for balancing is something that I didn't expect. He makes no money from that since he doesn't have the tools there to do it.

As far as 'real' balancing, that's how it is here too. There's pretty much one shop that does it for all the performance builders. The down side is, it can sometimes take an extra week or two because there's always a bunch of jobs ahead of yours. The upside is he's a specialist and you get a very well done job. Good 'ol Johnny O...!

 

[beanhead]

You should start a machine shop and only do cheap go broke quick jobs.
Start by telling the main returning customers with buckets of cash that you don't need their money. Rent/bils/equipment/wages will now be paid by "buttons and smiles jobs".

Aw you make it sound like these folks are in business to make money!

 

[RemCharger]

Aw you make it sound like these folks are in business to make money!

...or stay alive..

So back to the pistons,,
Did this guy weigh them? Or is he going off printed weights? Apparently there can be discrepancies with icons published weights

 

[Kern Dog]

I doubt that he looked up the numbers. He most likely weighed them himself.

 

[RemCharger]

 

[70ChargerRT]

You should start a machine shop and only do cheap go broke quick jobs.
Start by telling the main returning customers with buckets of cash that you don't need their money. Rent/bils/equipment/wages will now be paid by "buttons and smiles jobs".

A machine shop doing “cheap” “go broke” “quick jobs” lol lol lol. Thank you sir!!!! That was the laugh that I needed today lol lol lol.

 

[Kern Dog]

I did get to fiddle around a bit today.
Looking back a bit, this mod started at post # 226. This is about the stabilizer bar end links. The factory used a few different designs but the aftermarket stuff seems to usually be comprised of a long 5/16" or 3/8" bolt with a collection of bushings, washers and tubular spacers like so:

On the 70-72 B body and 73-76 A body, the sway bar (AKA Stabilizer bar) rests just slightly below the bottom of the control arm. This sway bar was modified to fit and mount in a similar manner.
The urethane bushings do provide better response than rubber but still do degrade over time. When they do, the fit loosens up, resulting in a delayed reaction before the sway bar resists body roll in the turns.
Note the squished and distorted appearance:

The following upgrade eliminates the bushings from the equation:

AS previously mentioned, they do fit but are too long. As delivered, they left the ends of the sway bar hanging too low.

They wouldn't hit the pavement while driving but they looked bad. You can see the difference in length between the old end links and these Moog units.

The critical length is the distance between the LCA bracket mount and the top of the sway bar end.
(Please excuse the crudity)

The fix ??

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

I did get to fiddle around a bit today.
Looking back a bit, this mod started at post # 226. This is about the stabilizer bar end links. The factory used a few different designs but the aftermarket stuff seems to usually be comprised of a long 5/16" or 3/8" bolt with a collection of bushings, washers and tubular spacers like so:

View attachment 1321699

On the 70-72 B body and 73-76 A body, the sway bar (AKA Stabilizer bar) rests just slightly below the bottom of the control arm. This sway bar was modified to fit and mount in a similar manner.
The urethane bushings do provide better response than rubber but still do degrade over time. When they do, the fit loosens up, resulting in a delayed reaction before the sway bar resists body roll in the turns.
Note the squished and distorted appearance:

View attachment 1321709

The following upgrade eliminates the bushings from the equation:

View attachment 1321712

AS previously mentioned, they do fit but are too long. As delivered, they left the ends of the sway bar hanging too low.

View attachment 1321714

View attachment 1321716

They wouldn't hit the pavement while driving but they looked bad. You can see the difference in length between the old end links and these Moog units.

View attachment 1321720



The critical length is the distance between the LCA bracket mount and the top of the sway bar end.
(Please excuse the crudity)

View attachment 1321723

The fix ??

Cut and weld, or use the factory end links .

Was it 1970 they moved the sway bar back, where it goes through the k member?

 

[Kern Dog]

When I read the Mopar Action article about the FORD stabilizer links, I went to the RockAuto site to look. The part number listed in the MA article resulted in 3 different styles of links. The Moog ones I bought are the most expensive of the three. Looking back, these lower cost ones do look cheap in comparison:

Look at the wire clip to retain the grease boot.

They would have worked but the painted surface would have been damaged with the work I did to make these fit.
I cut about 1 1/2" from the center, then welded it back together at a slight angle to compensate for the imperfect placement of the hole in the ends of the sway bar. The welds were knocked down with a hand file, then crocus cloth was used to polish it smooth. To get the fresh "cast/forged" finish, I sandblasted them using coarse 40 grit Red Garnet sand.
I finished them off with the RPM protectant.

Installed, they fit fine and look relatively unmodified.

I'll probably cut some of the threaded rod down to avoid snags....mainly my arms when working on the car.
Yes...these cars have the sway bar mounted through the K member:

(Old photo)

 

[Kern Dog]

Week 8 of the machinist having the engine. This pisses me off. I did line up another shop to balance the rotating assembly once I do finally get my parts back. Once I take the crank, rods and pistons to the next shop, I'll be able to paint the block and "line hone" the cam bearings with this home-made tool:

I've had to do this a few times before. The 383 in Jigsaw had a tight fitting cam until I used this method. Plenty of shavings came off too. Better to do this before even setting the crank.....Easier to clean the block of all debris with nothing in the way.

 

[ckessel]

Greg, while its apart maybe get ahold of a skid plate or make one. That will help give you a better jacking point, so the k doesn't end up on the sway bar, plus the obvious protection as intended.

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks. I do have one on the K member.

 

[beanhead]

Week 8 of the machinist having the engine. This pisses me off. I did line up another shop to balance the rotating assembly once I do finally get my parts back. Once I take the crank, rods and pistons to the next shop, I'll be able to paint the block and "line hone" the cam bearings with this home-made tool:

View attachment 1323934

I've had to do this a few times before. The 383 in Jigsaw had a tight fitting cam until I used this method. Plenty of shavings came off too. Better to do this before even setting the crank.....Easier to clean the block of all debris with nothing in the way.

Yup...the 'ol 'cutter cam'! I have a couple laying around that I've fashioned from junkyard cams. Grease it up and spin it in..works like a charm. Although I'm very happy when all that's needed is a little gentle scraping with the bearing knife but I'm usually not that lucky

 

[beanhead]

Greg, while its apart maybe get ahold of a skid plate or make one. That will help give you a better jacking point, so the k doesn't end up on the sway bar, plus the obvious protection as intended.

View attachment 1324084

Great idea...helps guard the oil pan too!

 

[Kern Dog]

The trip to Reno yesterday for the Hot August Nights shindig included a trip to the Summit Racing store in Sparks. I picked up a few things....

Two oil pan gaskets since I have a steel windage tray.....

Timing cover set with water pump and fuel pump gaskets....
I had a decent oil pump drive but I decided to go ahead and get a new one along with three of those bronze bushings.

I learned that the LA series uses the same as the B and RB blocks.
Of course, I had to get header paint.

Along with the core plugs and screw in gallery plugs.