Rear Brakes Lock Up when Wheels Go On?

[matthon]

When I put the wheels on, any wheels, Cragar, steel, it locks up the brake drum.

Placed against the back of the wheel it sits flat with a minor wobble, very very minor, both drums on any wheel.

Put the wheel on and you can see, what looks like, the wheel twisting, or maybe the drum is flattening out?

One lug tight, it's extremely hard to turn the wheel, two, nearly impossible, three, not possible.
I'm tightening them all evenly, the above was an experiment after the fact, although it shouldn't matter.

Pattern on drums from wheels looks normal, wheel centers clearing axle, drums fit over axles and studs with room to spare.
Everything is new.

Right side in more than left in first pic.
Wth is going on here?

 

[33 IMP]

Drums binding up on the shoes or backing plates.
I would (temporarily!) put a thin spacer between the drum and axle flange, and see if that solves the problem. For a quick ultra cheap test, just use some flat washers.
If it does, then either you have the wrong drum/backing plate combo, or shoes too wide.

 

[66 Sat]

As proof of the above, if you tighten the lug nuts with no wheel on the car, the drum should still lock up i.e. it's not related to the wheels, but the drum tightening against the shoes.

 

[pnora]

I see the axles have been drilled to the larger bolt circle. Were these axles in this car before? I am thinking the drum surface may not be cut far enough to the outside and binding on the lip of the shoe. Possible wrong combination of parts or mis-made drums.

 

[Red63440]

Try bolting on a wheel without the drum and see what happens.

 

[matthon]

Needs 3 washers to allow the drums to still move.
Even without drums or wheels the axles are not easy to turn, but turn fine when spinning the yoke.
This seemed odd to me at first, but thought it was just because every thing is new.
Also, just balanced a screwdriver on one side, on the studs, and spun the other, it didn't move or fall off, it should spin the same direction, yes?

Started with stock 62 8 3/4 open rear with tapered axles, only kept the housing and shock plates, Espo springs, the rest is all Dr. Diff stuff ordered after multiple emails and measurements.

I measured the stock axles when I pulled this apart, just a few days ago, and they are the same length as the new ones.
Had to replace the inner end seals and longer backing plate studs, and new 3.55 center, still all from the D man.

Everything went together fine, and I took measurements before and after.

 

[matthon]

Also, there's no wear marks on the backing plate, pads, or drums, from spinning a stubborn wheel/drum.

To clarify, this is not a Dr bashing post, just thought it should be something simple I'm missing, and if not I'd get good info for an email to the Dr.

 

[matthon]

Drum with just nuts needs washers because the threads start just after drum surface. With washers it stops turning.

With a wheel, no drum it turns.

It looks like the drum is being pulled against the axle, flattened really.

Should there be a little bit of play when you turn the wheel/tire back and forth?

 

[pnora]

Look closer at the drum to backing plate area. The drum has an outside groove cut around the perimeter that goes over the lip on the backing plate. This could be your problem. The simple test at this time would be to remove the shoes and then put the drum on.

 

[matthon]

This could be your problem

Can you elaborate, I get what you're saying but I don't see any scraping on either when it's tight but will turn.

I'll try taking off the shoes, but I was thinking, could it be as simple as I have 3" brakes and 2.5" drums?
Iirc, those are the 2 sizes.
I ordered the smaller, and it was recommended.

 

[pnora]

Can you elaborate, I get what you're saying but I don't see any scraping on either when it's tight but will turn.

I'll try taking off the shoes, but I was thinking, could it be as simple as I have 3" brakes and 2.5" drums?
Iirc, those are the 2 sizes.
I ordered the smaller, and it was recommended.

There obviously is something that is not fitting right. Taking the shoes off and seeing what it does is the first step. That way you know the drums fit the backing plates if they turn with the wheels on.

 

[matthon]

Is this the problem?
Or is the 2.5" drum wider than 2.5".

 

[pnora]

Is this the problem?
Or is the 2.5" drum wider than 2.5".

View attachment 1258897 View attachment 1258898

Looks like the drums are about 2 3/4 to 2 7/8 and the shoes are 2 1/2 which should be right. If the shoes were 3 inch the drums would be 3 1/4 or so. Try it with the shoes off.

 

[Jc cooper]

Not sure this will help , but went through something similar, with my car , basically same setup, with new Dr’s axles ! Not a problem with parts in my case , solution I found, was to start at the bottom, with the nuts and tighten up from there in a sequence! Now I know this sounds strange , but without the little washers that hold drums up to the axle end , the buggers would bind up , the drums would lift at the bottom and pinch the shoes ! All I can say , it worked for me , and then adjusted shoes to the drums, after the fact ! Hope this helps! JC

 

[matthon]

No pads, turns with just drum or with drum and wheel.
So the drum fits the backing plate, but how can the shoes be wrong?
What other size is there?

 

[pnora]

No pads, turns with just drum or with drum and wheel.
So the drum fits the backing plate, but how can the shoes be wrong?
What other size is there?

The drums may be made wrong. The shoes are hitting the side of the drum where the tip of your tape is. Need to measure or find a drum to compare. Lots of CCJ out there.

 

[Jc cooper]

Not sure this will help , but went through something similar, with my car , basically same setup, with new Dr’s axles ! Not a problem with parts in my case , solution I found, was to start at the bottom, with the nuts and tighten up from there in a sequence! Now I know this sounds strange , but without the little washers that hold drums up to the axle end , the buggers would bind up , the drums would lift at the bottom and pinch the shoes ! All I can say , it worked for me , and then adjusted shoes to the drums, after the fact ! Hope this helps! JC

Just put everything on , rotate wheel to place first nut at the bottom and move to top and around ! Try it , what’s to lose !

 

[pnora]

No pads, turns with just drum or with drum and wheel.
So the drum fits the backing plate, but how can the shoes be wrong?
What other size is there?

Let me ask you this. Are your backing plates mounted directly to the axle tube and then the axle flange is on the outside? I do not think it could go anyother way because the backing plate would have to be on the axle before the flange and bearing were pressed on. Just a thought as that could space the shoes out further.

 

[matthon]

I tried tightening nuts in different orders, bottom to top, top to bottom to side to side.
Bottom line, I shouldn't have to follow a procedure each time I want to put a wheel on, and self discover said procedure.

Of course, I went on and on and on, email after email, that I just finished a 64 Fury, and how I didn't want to spend time to save $.
I was willing to spend some coin this time if it eliminated locating and gathering parts, cleaning, blasting, painting, blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.

I'm ticked to no end.

 

[Jc cooper]

Well ,ok