Rear Brakes Lock Up when Wheels Go On?

[matthon]

Pulled one axle out, everything was put together correctly, see pics.

Face of axle to groove on backing plate 3 15/16.
Inner drum face to outer edge of drum 3 1/2

Face of axle to rim on backing plate 3 3/16
Inner drum face to groove on outer edge of drum 3 1/8

Whether you get my measurements or not, there is plenty of room for the drum.

Drum from 64 Fury, which has 65 brakes, is identical, exactly, every measurement on this drum and the new is the same.

Fury drum on Dart, same issue, Dart drum on Fury, works fine, just drum on or drum with steel wheel.

The shoes from the Dart in a few spots, which are hard to find, are not quite 1/16 wider than the Fury, virtually undetectable.
Put Dart shoes in Fury drum, no difference whatsoever.

Fury and Dart brakes are identical, they look identical - except 1 thing.

 

[matthon]

So, after finding nothing, I pulled the adjuster out on the side that is still together because it looked longer.

Put the drum back on, and the wheel with 5 lug nuts, spins fine, wtf?

Went and got the old adjuster, both at their shortest it's clear one is much longer.

Put the old one on, adjusted all the way down, drum and wheel back on, hard to turn, and at one point it gets near impossible.

Pulled the wheel and drum off, put just the drum on with 5 lug nuts, can't turn it at all without the wheel for leverage.

I put the wheel back on and spun it as long as possible, no driveshaft and it doesn't run yet.

Pulled everything off, thought the wear pattern on the shoes looked off, but realized they were that way before and the other side is similar.

Still no idea what the issue is here.

Even now, put it on the ground, can't even push it and it only has 1 rear brake together.

 

[pnora]

Lay a strait edge across the axle flange and measure to the lip on the backing plate on both cars and post the numbers. Why did you remove a front and not a rear drum on the other car.

 

[furyus]

Couple things. Is the backing plate from an A, or B body? They are different.
Seeing that pattern on your shoes makes me think that the finish is incorrect. I had a problem with the finish. Made so much racket, that I thought it was the rear. I had the drums turned, and no issues. Might need to turn the drums, making sure they cut as close to the face of the drum as possible. Your picture with the tape measure looks like there's something weird at the beginning of your tape measure.

 

[matthon]

I measured both cars, multiple measurements, more than I posted, including using a tape measure and a laser measure.
I even measured the lug holes on the drums and the center hole, from the axle to the backing plate at the edge, the inset edge, and where the shoes rub, on both cars.
I used a straight edge every time, an old school steel square.

I removed the front drum on the other car because the front and rear are exactly the same.
Both have hubs and the exact same 65 drums.
It has tapered axles in the rear with a hub that I converted.

Backing plates are what I ordered from the Dr, for a 62 b-body, they are 65.

The new drums work fine on the other car, both of them with the drum and wheel fully bolted on. Spin no problemo with the same amount of slight resistance as the old drums.
The brakes on the other car are not that old, with not a lot of miles.

 

[pnora]

I measured both cars, multiple measurements, more than I posted, including using a tape measure and a laser measure.
I even measured the lug holes on the drums and the center hole, from the axle to the backing plate at the edge, the inset edge, and where the shoes rub, on both cars.
I used a straight edge every time, an old school steel square.

I removed the front drum on the other car because the front and rear are exactly the same.
Both have hubs and the exact same 65 drums.
It has tapered axles in the rear with a hub that I converted.

Backing plates are what I ordered from the Dr, for a 62 b-body, they are 65.

The new drums work fine on the other car, both of them with the drum and wheel fully bolted on. Spin no problemo with the same amount of slight resistance as the old drums.
The brakes on the other car are not that old, with not a lot of miles.

Measure from the face of the axle to the backing plate shoe contact points. These are the 6 pads on each plate where the hold down springs pull the shoes to. That's about all that's left. They might be for a narrower shoe like 2 1/4 wide.

 

[matthon]

I put the driver's side back together.
Anything below the red line, roughly, looks like it seats against the axle flange, the stud is through same as without the shoes.

It's the same no matter the position of the axle, or the drum, kept spinning them both, always the same.

So I put blobs of anti-seize in various spots, one at a time, they look small but I wiped each blob off before I applied the next.

Each time I put the drum on, moved it around, pushed it, turned the axle, kicked it, beat it, lol.

Nothing on the inside of the drum, zero, not a spec of anti-seize anywhere.

 

[matthon]

Measure from the face of the axle to the backing plate shoe contact points.

Post 46, "where the shoes rub."
I compared it to the shoes and the drum, on both cars. There is enough space for the shoes.

 

[pnora]

You put the drums on with no shoes they turn fine. You put the shoes on and they wont turn. Something is coming in contact to the drum.

 

[pnora]

Clean and lightly paint a drum. There has to be a tattle tale mark somewhere.

 

[padam]

I suppose you should check the face of the axle flange. If it tapers it may be causing the drum to distort when tightened.
Can't think of a good way to check it right off hand.

 

[pnora]

Are these retainers possibly hitting the shoe and pushing the shoe up? Try taking them out and make sure the emergency brake is backed all the way off.

 

[matthon]

Backing plates have no scratches or scrapes or anything I can see.
That's why I was putting anti-seize everywhere, because that stuff gets everywhere.
It ended up all over me, but nothing transferred from part to part.

Face of axle flange is flat, put the old school square against it.

 

[pnora]

One last ditch effort. Try the shoes off the other car. One time we had a set that had issues. They were aftermarket new shoes. The metal part of the shoe that the lining is bonded to was made wrong. It was slightly larger than the original. With new drums they would not turn. With the old worn drums they would turn. Installed another brand of shoe and the problem was fixed.

 

[matthon]

Are these retainers possibly hitting the shoe and pushing the shoe up? Try taking them out and make sure the emergency brake is backed all the way off.

It's one piece with a hole in the center that sits centered on that stud.
There is no emergency brake, just the rear cables hooked to nothing.

Taking the adjuster out freed it up a little. Removing the shoes frees it up.
The wear pattern appears to be mostly at the top on 1 shoe.
The inside face of the drum isn't hitting the shoes, specifically at the top.

I was thinking the bearings may have been pressed on too far, but can the axles go into the center section farther than they should?

Even if they are pressed on too far, wth is causing the drum to not sit against the axle flange? And why?

What's next, remove the shoes from the other car, I'm not sure that even makes sense.

The 65 drums are not bigger than the earlier ones, I didn't have to change the backing plates on the Fury.
I only pulled the drum/hub that was swedged together via the studs, split them, kept the hub, bought 65 studs, drums, and brakes.

I'm losing the battle and the war.

 

[matthon]

Try the shoes off the other car.

I just wrote that!
I actually put the new shoes into my Fury drum and they fit fine, just setting them in and staring at them.

 

[matthon]

My latest guess, cause it's freezing outside and this is bs, the C shape outlined in red is too long.

 

[pnora]

My latest guess, cause it's freezing outside and this is bs, the C shape outlined in red is too long.

View attachment 1259367

Its hard to say exactly where it is wrong. The area you circled can look different as the linings vary in size. So you tried the shoes off the other car on to the one you are having problems with?

 

[Tinker67]

Had exact same thing happen to me this afternoon. As 'pnora' said, be sure E brake is backed off . Service brake must be adjusted first then adjust the latter. After 3 times on and off, that hit me . ( Too much tension on E brake cable puts to much tension on the primary shoe , bind !) Good luck

 

[Geoff 2]

It sounds like the back of the drum is making contact with the backing plate when the nuts are tightened.
In this country, 1962-1964 119"wheelbase cars had 10" drums; starting in 1965, they had 11"drums.