Rebuilt 383 startup problems
- Thread starter RRSweden
- Start date
AMX364
Well-Known Member
You can also get Top Dead Center by removing #1 plug and rotate the engine BY HAND until you feel pressure push your finger(by compression) off. This is the compression stroke and at this time your distributor rotor should be facing the wire where this plug was.
Some of us have made errors assuming where #1 cylinder is located and thinking they had everything correct, but had not. This is still the same way purplebeeper was trying to say, but worded different.
Some of us have made errors assuming where #1 cylinder is located and thinking they had everything correct, but had not. This is still the same way purplebeeper was trying to say, but worded different.
RRSweden
Well-Known Member
I got you. But as I said, I have already confirmed the order of the wires, that I'm at the compression stroke and that the rotor is pointing at #1 and not the opposit #6, as it would if I were 180 degrees mixed up...
...But I'll have another look at it tomorrow just to make sure again.
The battery is maybe not the best, and the stock starter is slow, but I think I would have gotten some life-signs out of the old lump. I know the fuel pump don't get a chance to work really hard driven only by the starter, but as I said, I poured some gas in the primary floater housing, and made sure it squirted out the nozzle...
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AMX364
Well-Known Member
The Mopar electronic ignition kinda quits below 10 volts. Could this be happening?
Hemi 354
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The firing order is still: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Not the one in post #2.
did you mess with any of the ignition wiring. reason i ask is you may only have ignition in run mode and not crank. easy to check, turn key to run and jump it at the starter relay. see if any change?
Good point. It's amazing the ideas that come out of someone's brain when you're not standing in front of that blasted car with the pressure on. And then after you post an idea, 10 secs. later another idea pops up and you say "why didn't I add that on the post"?
miller
Well-Known Member
Back to basics...yes, I agree your 180* out...or, is it only 90*? 
Afraid this will be a little long winded.
Pull all the plugs, to make it easier to turn the engine over, by hand. Then pull the distributor. Watching both your timing marks, and watching (through the distributor hole) the two lifters for #1 cylinder, rotate the engine.
To get #1 cylinder at TDC compression stroke, the timing mark will go to 0, and the two lifters for #1 will be fully down. Easy to check when you get there, by moving the engine back, and forth, watching the lifters. If both move, one at a time (just like mentioned), it's on EXHAUST stroke. If neither move, it's on compression stroke...where you want it.
Keep in mind, #1 comes to top twice, once on compression, once on exhaust strokes.
Now rotate the engine 'backwards', until timing mark is off the timing plate. That's to get gear slack out. Then, in correct rotation, turn until timing mark lines up with 12* btdc, or where ever you want the timing at.
Then, put the plugs back in. Then, to the distributor. Quit worrying about where the rotor is pointing, and all that nonsense. Your going to put it where you want!
Normally, if installed right, the slot at the top of the drive gear, would be in line with the cam...front to rear. It can easily be turned, by lifting the gear, turning it, and drop it back in.
Pull the distributor cap, if you haven't yet. Consider, while dropping the distributor in, where the advance 'can' will be, so the distributor has swing clearance, to adjust timing. With the distributor in place, take note where the rotor is pointing, AND where the locating tab is, for the cap location. Cap should go on only one way.
Then, look at the cap, for the plug wire location on the cap, that the rotor is pointing to. That's where #1 plug wire needs to be! If it is not...pull all the plug wires off the cap, get #1 in the right place, and go from there for the rest of the wires, going in firing order.
Once that's done, cap back off, and look at the points (or, if electronic, at the fingers), and just rotate the distributor, until the points are at the point of opening (or, the finger is just coming up to #1 finger, if electronic).
You also want the rotor 'finger', to be located where it is just coming to the #1 contact inside the cap...not directly at the contact. It fires off, when it gets at that point.
Tighten down the distributor clamp, put the cap on, and fire off the engine...
Afraid this will be a little long winded.
Pull all the plugs, to make it easier to turn the engine over, by hand. Then pull the distributor. Watching both your timing marks, and watching (through the distributor hole) the two lifters for #1 cylinder, rotate the engine.
To get #1 cylinder at TDC compression stroke, the timing mark will go to 0, and the two lifters for #1 will be fully down. Easy to check when you get there, by moving the engine back, and forth, watching the lifters. If both move, one at a time (just like mentioned), it's on EXHAUST stroke. If neither move, it's on compression stroke...where you want it.
Keep in mind, #1 comes to top twice, once on compression, once on exhaust strokes.
Now rotate the engine 'backwards', until timing mark is off the timing plate. That's to get gear slack out. Then, in correct rotation, turn until timing mark lines up with 12* btdc, or where ever you want the timing at.
Then, put the plugs back in. Then, to the distributor. Quit worrying about where the rotor is pointing, and all that nonsense. Your going to put it where you want!
Normally, if installed right, the slot at the top of the drive gear, would be in line with the cam...front to rear. It can easily be turned, by lifting the gear, turning it, and drop it back in.
Pull the distributor cap, if you haven't yet. Consider, while dropping the distributor in, where the advance 'can' will be, so the distributor has swing clearance, to adjust timing. With the distributor in place, take note where the rotor is pointing, AND where the locating tab is, for the cap location. Cap should go on only one way.
Then, look at the cap, for the plug wire location on the cap, that the rotor is pointing to. That's where #1 plug wire needs to be! If it is not...pull all the plug wires off the cap, get #1 in the right place, and go from there for the rest of the wires, going in firing order.
Once that's done, cap back off, and look at the points (or, if electronic, at the fingers), and just rotate the distributor, until the points are at the point of opening (or, the finger is just coming up to #1 finger, if electronic).
You also want the rotor 'finger', to be located where it is just coming to the #1 contact inside the cap...not directly at the contact. It fires off, when it gets at that point.
Tighten down the distributor clamp, put the cap on, and fire off the engine...
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RRSweden
Well-Known Member
Thank you for taking your time to help me! I basically did all that, but I'm going through it again step by step.Back to basics...yes, I agree your 180* out...or, is it only 90*?
Afraid this will be a little long winded.
Pull all the plugs, to make it easier to turn the engine over, by hand. Then pull the distributor. Watching both your timing marks, and watching (through the distributor hole) the two lifters for #1 cylinder, rotate the engine.
To get #1 cylinder at TDC compression stroke, the timing mark will go to 0, and the two lifters for #1 will be fully down. Easy to check when you get there, by moving the engine back, and forth, watching the lifters. If both move, one at a time (just like mentioned), it's on EXHAUST stroke. If neither move, it's on compression stroke...where you want it.
Keep in mind, #1 comes to top twice, once on compression, once on exhaust strokes.
Now rotate the engine 'backwards', until timing mark is off the timing plate. That's to get gear slack out. Then, in correct rotation, turn until timing mark lines up with 12* btdc, or where ever you want the timing at.
Then, put the plugs back in. Then, to the distributor. Quit worrying about where the rotor is pointing, and all that nonsense. Your going to put it where you want!
Normally, if installed right, the slot at the top of the drive gear, would be in line with the cam...front to rear. It can easily be turned, by lifting the gear, turning it, and drop it back in.
Pull the distributor cap, if you haven't yet. Consider, while dropping the distributor in, where the advance 'can' will be, so the distributor has swing clearance, to adjust timing. With the distributor in place, take note where the rotor is pointing, AND where the locating tab is, for the cap location. Cap should go on only one way.
Then, look at the cap, for the plug wire location on the cap, that the rotor is pointing to. That's where #1 plug wire needs to be! If it is not...pull all the plug wires off the cap, get #1 in the right place, and go from there for the rest of the wires, going in firing order.
Once that's done, cap back off, and look at the points (or, if electronic, at the fingers), and just rotate the distributor, until the points are at the point of opening (or, the finger is just coming up to #1 finger, if electronic).
You also want the rotor 'finger', to be located where it is just coming to the #1 contact inside the cap...not directly at the contact. It fires off, when it gets at that point.
Tighten down the distributor clamp, put the cap on, and fire off the engine...
One thing I noticed when I pulled the rotor is that on top of the "cam" (I have an electronic dist) there's an arrow pointing clockwise. That made me a bit confused as it rotates counterclockwise... Also, I get the spring-slack as I turn the rotor counter-cw. In my brain it should be the other way around on a counter-cw moving distributor?
Jackpot50
Well-Known Member
just have someone crank in and move the distrbutor by hand tell it starts.
make sure you have firing order counterclockwise.
Fuel and spark that's all you need. did you put a cam in it?
make sure you have firing order counterclockwise.
Fuel and spark that's all you need. did you put a cam in it?
miller
Well-Known Member
Sounds fishy. Pull the coil wire from the coil, pull the distributor cap, and have a helper turn the motor over with the starter. Watch the rotor, and see which way it rotates.
RRSweden
Well-Known Member
It rotates counterclock. I checked my friends chevy smallblock (clockwise) distributor and it had the slack clockwise, so I guess thats the way it's supposed to be...
But I'm still curious bout the arrow on the cam on the distributor pointing clockwise..
RRSweden
Well-Known Member
Also, I'm running with my old stock starter motor. Do you think it's too heavy to pull a 10,5:1 comp engine with that old piece of weight?
moparnation74
Well-Known Member
Basics people, basics....
PurpleBeeper
Well-Known Member
Yep, this is another way to get there.... but to answer RSSweden's question.....
At the very bottom of the distributor (inside engine), the main shaft of the distributor looks like a "flat head" screwdriver & goes into the cam/oil pump gear's "flat head screw" slot. Your screwdriver (bottom of distributor) would fit into that gear's slot two ways, and yes, it would turn the rotor to the opposite side of the distributor cap. I've done it before, which is why I mention it. Firing order, rotation, etc. all good, but coughing flames out of the carburetor....turned the distributor 180-degrees (screw driver facing opposite direction) and it fired right up.
As oldbee mentioned, you can do the same thing by moving all your plug wires "around the distributor cap" to the opposite side....different approach, same result.
I think when I got mine 180-degrees off I had the rotor pointing at #1 top-dead-center during the exhaust stroke, not the firing stroke. (#1 piston hits top-dead-center TWICE per firing cycle....once at firing & once just as the exhaust stroke is ending & the intake stroke is starting). You want #1 TDC firing
Jackpot50
Well-Known Member
Its a big block pretty sure which way it turns
RRSweden
Well-Known Member
Yes. Of course some of the stuff is totally basic. I've rebuilt the engine from scratch by myself, so I have some knowledge, but of course, somtimes it's the most basic stuff one can miss...
I double checked everything yesterday, and threw on a different set of spark wires that I know for sure works, just in case. I'm also gonna order a new ministarter.
I'm now sure the fuel pump was able to get any gas up to the carb by the slow starter, so maybe it only fired the gas I'd pured in manually? Maybe too lean mix caused the backfires?
I double checked everything yesterday, and threw on a different set of spark wires that I know for sure works, just in case. I'm also gonna order a new ministarter.
I'm now sure the fuel pump was able to get any gas up to the carb by the slow starter, so maybe it only fired the gas I'd pured in manually? Maybe too lean mix caused the backfires?
miller
Well-Known Member
Absolutely right, Jackpot50! Didn't go far enough...guess I ran out of wind.
RRSweden...should of tossed in, while checking the distributor, and it turning the right direction...also pull the cap, and see which way the rotor turns, by hand (the advance). Should move counter-clockwise, and spring back.
Not positive, but think I recall marine Mopar engines rotate opposite from auto. Guess the marine type distributors would, too.
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