Selecting Cam, getting that low rpm off-idle response?

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Thanks @Geoff 2 ,@451Mopar and @gtxrt for lots of Cam advice, learning a lot.

I would like to order some parts so my engine project can start.
So, reading through this thread it seems that my choice of heads was not right for my combo.
Now, a set of E-Street heads with an 84cc chamber would set me at about 10:1 compression and they are also rated at idle-5500.
E street heads 84cc

Trying to get my head around all info this seems to be a better choice?

 

[Geoff 2]

Some comments:
- a lot of Edel stuff is on back order
- new Edel heads will cost a lot of $$$$, & the hardware [ valves, springs etc ] are not very good quality.
- although you may never get the opportunity to do this, but comparing the performance of both brand of heads on a running engine might show little difference. With disappointment for spending $$$ on the E heads.
- I would keep the TF heads. They can always be changed later....
- cams behave differently with engine capacity. A cam that idles rough in a 273 will be smoother in a 440 & will also have a different power range. Just about all the cam companies show a 'one size fits all' for their cams for different size engines. Useless for somebody trying to make an informed choice....
- The only company that I am aware of that divided its cams into cubic inch categories was Crower, but not sure if they still do it. Crower was also ahead of the game decades ago with a street high performance cam [ 2800 rpm & up ] for the 440, ground on 105 LSA.
- Isky cams are also mostly tighter LSA, have been for decades. I think a good shelf grind choice would be the 256 Supercam. 208/208 @ 050, 108 LSA. 2000-5500 rpm range.
- buy D. Vizard's BB & SB books, much to learn & money saved by making correct decisions!!!!

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Some comments:
- a lot of Edel stuff is on back order
- new Edel heads will cost a lot of $$$$, & the hardware [ valves, springs etc ] are not very good quality.
- although you may never get the opportunity to do this, but comparing the performance of both brand of heads on a running engine might show little difference. With disappointment for spending $$$ on the E heads.
- I would keep the TF heads. They can always be changed later....
- cams behave differently with engine capacity. A cam that idles rough in a 273 will be smoother in a 440 & will also have a different power range. Just about all the cam companies show a 'one size fits all' for their cams for different size engines. Useless for somebody trying to make an informed choice....
- The only company that I am aware of that divided its cams into cubic inch categories was Crower, but not sure if they still do it. Crower was also ahead of the game decades ago with a street high performance cam [ 2800 rpm & up ] for the 440, ground on 105 LSA.
- Isky cams are also mostly tighter LSA, have been for decades. I think a good shelf grind choice would be the 256 Supercam. 208/208 @ 050, 108 LSA. 2000-5500 rpm range.
- buy D. Vizard's BB & SB books, much to learn & money saved by making correct decisions!!!!

I dont have the TF heads, that order was canceled.

 

[451Mopar]

Nothing wrong with the trick flow heads, just a bit overkill for what you say your doing.
I like the Hughes Engines Flat tappet cams.
Without getting into custom cams, the HUG SEH2024BL-11 should do what you want, and what I would choose for your combination.
https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...b3cgRGVjayk=&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30253

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Nothing wrong with the trick flow heads, just a bit overkill for what you say your doing.
I like the Hughes Engines Flat tappet cams.
Without getting into custom cams, the HUG SEH2024BL-11 should do what you want, and what I would choose for your combination.
https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...b3cgRGVjayk=&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30253

So what heads would be a good choice for what I am trying to do.?

The TF order was canceled so lets forget about those now.

It seems like the E Street Eddys are no good? But I dont see that many other choices of BB heads with an around 84cc chamber.

 

[Geoff 2]

Have you tried 440Source?

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Have you tried 440Source?

The Stealth heads would land me around 10.34:1 in comp.
Well, I guess I just have to choose a pair of heads and go with it, whatever brand I read about it gets both good and bad reviews.

Though, my whole rotating assembly is 440 source....

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Hi Jonas, I like the the Holleys and the Thermoquads; GTX John could probably tell you about performance with the Thermoquads. As for the a street cam, I like the Lunati Voodoos. And as for compression, my 6 pac GTX runs about 190 psi compression with the stock-like cam the previous owner installed, and with my recurved and limited distributor, it works on pump gas and pops pretty good, though it is a 4spd car. If your compression is a little too high, just buy some thicker Cometic gaskets, they make about whatever you might need.

Thanks, yeah waiting to hear back from John when he has recovered.

 

[gtxrt]

i would go with the 440 source, engine masters tested them and like them the best for the street. you can always unshroud around the valves to get more chamber cc's. stock mopar hp cam has the right duration but it's on a too wide 115 lsa. 208-208 duration is 2 sizes smaller then the stock mopar hp cam. keep the intake between 216 and 220 and the exhaust no bigger than 224 and the lsa between 109-111 and you won't be sorry. below is about half the cams i have used, never keep the cam cards from the earlier mopar 440 built from direct connection lunati and hughes cams.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

i would go with the 440 source, engine masters tested them and like them the best for the street. you can always unshroud around the valves to get more chamber cc's. stock mopar hp cam has the right duration but it's on a too wide 115 lsa. 208-208 duration is 2 sizes smaller then the stock mopar hp cam. keep the intake between 216 and 220 and the exhaust no bigger than 224 and the lsa between 109-111 and you won't be sorry. below is about half the cams i have used, never keep the cam cards from the earlier mopar 440 built from direct connection lunati and hughes cams.

View attachment 1330578

Thanks, that is some great info.
Yep, the 440 stealth heads is what Im going to drop my wallet on.

Im going to base my cam choice on recommendations in this thread and prolly go with the cam that 451Mopar posted.
With this I will go to my Drag racing neighbor and ask for his opinion, he always says that people are over-camming their engines.

 

[gtxrt]

Thanks, that is some great info.
Yep, the 440 stealth heads is what Im going to drop my wallet on.

Im going to base my cam choice on recommendations in this thread and prolly go with the cam that 451Mopar posted.
With this I will go to my Drag racing neighbor and ask for his opinion, he always says that people are over-camming their engines.

Hughes engines also has a 216-220 if you need one size smaller then the 220-224.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Hughes engines also has a 216-220 if you need one size smaller then the 220-224.

But with 112 lsa?
What would the difference in engine behavior be with those two cams?

https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...b3cgRGVjayk=&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30252

https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...b3cgRGVjayk=&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30253

 

[gtxrt]

But with 112 lsa?
What would the difference in engine behavior be with those two cams?

https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...b3cgRGVjayk=&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30252

https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...b3cgRGVjayk=&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30253

smaller one better idle more vacuum better gas mileage a little better off the line. the bigger one will pull a little better once you reach the upper mid range rpms.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

smaller one better idle more vacuum better gas mileage a little better off the line. the bigger one will pull a little better once you reach the upper mid range rpms.

Many thanks. Quite obvious which one that I will choose.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Thanks a lot for all the replies in the thread.
Now I am more settled of what heads and cam that I will need to order for my engine build.

Time to rebuild and test a Thermoquad on my test mule engine thats in the car.

 

[pro451bee]

The mopar solid 528 cam is a great steet cam , has great low end torque , idles like a angry kitten and pulls well to 6k.

 

[Bighead440]

The Crane 272-2 (216/228*@.050" 112LSA) hydraulic would give bottom end and good vacuum. Also the small Elgin/Summit white box cam (214/224*@.050" 112LSA) would be a cheaper and milder option. The large Elgin/Summit (224/234*@.050" 114LSA) or Crane 278-2 (222/[email protected]") would pull a little higher in the band (maybe 5500?) in a 440 and still have close to 15" vacuum. High duration and close lobe sep angles work against your vacuum goal.

 

[gtxrt]

The Crane 272-2 (216/228*@.050" 112LSA) hydraulic would give bottom end and good vacuum. Also the small Elgin/Summit white box cam (214/224*@.050" 112LSA) would be a cheaper and milder option. The large Elgin/Summit (224/234*@.050" 114LSA) or Crane 278-2 (222/[email protected]") would pull a little higher in the band (maybe 5500?) in a 440 and still have close to 15" vacuum. High duration and close lobe sep angles work against your vacuum goal.

ran the crane 222/234 were on a 114 lsa , no low end, never really turned on till upper mid range but it did keep pulling in the upper rpms

 

[Bighead440]

ran the crane 222/234 were on a 114 lsa , no low end, never really turned on till upper mid range but it did keep pulling in the upper rpms

With the static compression listed, if degreed-in advanced (maybe 108?), it should have decent low end for a cam producing that much vacuum. Tighter LSA would definitely help off idle, but the vacuum won't be there.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

That's the factory 383-440 hp cam.

Same as this?