Solid or Roller Cam what would you use.

[lewtot184]

the bushed rollers will eliminate the needle bearing problem but can still be "hammered out". there simply isn't enough surface area to carry the load long term with the profiles people want to run. using a gentle lobe with bushed rollers will last longer but trying to get people to do it will be like pulling teeth. the oem stuff lasts a long time due to gentles lobes and less spring pressure. any time i hear some one say they want a reliable street engine but don't want to leave any power on the table i cringe.

 

[dvw]

I have seen these handle big spring pressures in drag cars and on the dyno but I don't have and long term, real world results as to their durability long term. Anyone have any data?[/QUOTE I purchased Isky Red Zone's with bushings for that exact reason. My Comps were done at about 160 passes. My friend runs A BB Chev in S/G. 400/1000, over 1"lift. 700 + passes w/o a rebuild. That was good enough for me.
Doug

 

[69 GTX]

Lew you are right! You have to figure out what you're willing to do as a maintenance program & $, and build the HP accordingly. With the winters here in Iowa I figure if I can run a summer without issue I'm good, I'll have 3-4 months for service and repairs.

 

[lewtot184]

Lew you are right! You have to figure out what you're willing to do as a maintenance program & $, and build the HP accordingly. With the winters here in Iowa I figure if I can run a summer without issue I'm good, I'll have 3-4 months for service and repairs.

just get a plan together. if i was to do a roller i'd keep a spare set of rollers and switch them periodically while sending one set out for rebuild. be careful with the bronze gear. make sure the cam gear and bronze gear fit good and don't use unnecessary oil pressure.

 

[Cranky]

Solid roller cam with mild "street" ramp rates will be easy on springs and maintenance.

How many miles per year are you going to realistically drive the car? If you are only going to put 2,000-3,000 miles per year on the car, the roller should last many years.
My 451 stroker used a mild Utradyne street roller cam, and after about 30,000 miles it was still in good shape, but the bronze oil pump drive gear had a bit of wear on it.
I broke an intake valve on that engine, and it may be because I did not change the valve springs? The Comp roller lifters were still good too.
I think it was the mild ramp rates and spring pressures are the main thing as I have seen some high rate of lift solids that are just as agressive or more than the mild roller I was using.

I agree with the milder ramps!! And these days I'm lucky to put 2000 miles on my daily drivers in a year lol but I do have 3 cars. In the early 80's (here we go again) I ran an Isky .660/320 solid roller cam using non needle bearing lifters and non roller Isky rockers. Was it aggressive? Probably not all that much based on today's standards but at least it wasn't so aggressive that it was hard on parts. 300 passes seeing 7300 at the stripe tells the story plus it stayed in adjustment! On the other hand, a buddy was running a .600 lift solid flat tappet cam (can't remember the brand) using the same rockers as mine had and it wouldn't stay in adjustment to save his life. He had the valve covers off after every pass. Don't know what springs he was using or any other specs on his cam but I think solid flat cams can be just as mean to the valve train components as a solid roller but you can also get solid roller cams that are not overly aggressive. Also, I don't buy off the shelf cams. If you can provide ALL the specs of your car's combo and how it will be used to a cam specialist, they can get you a cam that will be better than anything off the shelf 99% of the time.

 

[69 GTX]

I'm anxious to see how my custom cam will hold up. Bought the best of everything so we'll see. Harland sharp 1.6s, MRL BBM Pro PLUS solid roller lifters, Comp roller cam should be about .625 lift at the valve with 236/242 duration @.050. I was really looking for the most I could get with a smoother idle.

- - - Updated - - -

My set up shouldn't see anything over 6000 rpm

 

[lewtot184]

over on yellowbullet.com there's a discussion about bushed rollers if anyone is interested in following it.

 

[Jeremiah]

over on yellowbullet.com there's a discussion about bushed rollers if anyone is interested in following it.

link please!

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

After my second failure of the comp 829 lifters ,I spent a lot of time on the phone with several cam grinders about my situation. Had,,,,,. 780 lift cam with aggressive lobes,,, went with less aggression and lower lift in the .640 range with 230 on the seat & 650 lbs open. Also went to an 828 lifter considered an AMC lifter. Same inexpensive price as the 829's,put pressurized oil to the needles with pushrod oiling ability .On my Hemi, I also sent oil up the exhaust pushrods with NO hole in the adjuster .Puts more oil on the exhaust spring.
With my friends wedge,we sent oil up all 16 because the wedge engines are known to burn cups.We also lost 15 lbs of oil pressure. I drive about 2500 miles a year and this was the 4th season on this freshen up with NO issues and no real adjustment.Last time the engine was freshened,put restrictors in the p/r's and got that 15 lbs of OP back.
I also found the cure to total engine contamination after a failure:eusa_whistle:


Your results may very depending on your driving habits.

 

[69 GTX]

So may I ask what the cure was, for total engine contamination? Other than don't break parts.

 

[lewtot184]

hemi-itis, so why are the wedges burning cups? maybe oil restricters, poor push rod/rocker geometry? who even looks at push rod/rocker geometry? i getcha on the comp rollers.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

So may I ask what the cure was, for total engine contamination? Other than don't break parts.

I use a Milodon oil pump & pan,same setup that's been in the MOPAR bible for 50 years.Jimi Vignogna told me to use pre-filters in the 2 oil pick up lines,and I also no longer use an oil filter with a by-pass.
Milodon pump advertises 19 gpm. I had a fram HP2 with bypass,when 19 GPM hits a filter that flows 10 or 12 GPM the by-pass opens and you filter NOTHING.When the lifter failed,I had contamination all through the oil system and on the skirts of the pistons requiring a complete tear down to clean,polish crank and replace the pistons.:angryfire:
My next lifter failure had NO contamination in the oil system,just on the inside walls and in the pan.Some flakes make it into the prefilter and oil filters,,,,,,that's it.Dropped pan,brake clean the inside of the block,clean pan and replace lifters.
Also use a duel remote oil filter housing with 2 fram NON bypass filters.
After that one I went to the Comp 848 lifters,a new cam with softer ramps and lighter springs as a package from comp.I have about 10k miles on these lifters since the last rebuild they say I didn't need.Did them anyway as PM along with the Magna Fuel pump.

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hemi-itis, so why are the wedges burning cups? maybe oil restricters, poor push rod/rocker geometry? who even looks at push rod/rocker geometry? i getcha on the comp rollers.

I'm no expert,this is when we miss Dan the most. I don't think they get enough oil and that must make them hot and they gall.Maybe it's geometry,I'm not sure but I sure heard of it happening many times,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[451Mopar]

Look at the different street and race lobe profiles and descriptions and compare the 0.050 duration to the 0.200 duration to get a feel for how agressive the cam lobes are.

Example: A High Energy [email protected]" street roller lobe has 170 duration @ 0.200", and valve lift of 0.575".
Compared to a High rate of lift MM solid profile [email protected] lobe has 173 duration @ 0.200, and valve lift of 0.582". This solid is a bit more agressive than the roller cam, but the roller profile may be easier on the valve train.
Then compare to an agressive TX roller profile with the same 255@ 0.050 duration, but 180 duration @ 0.200", and a valve lift of 0.645". This profile will require more spring pressure to control the valve train, and will be harder on parts.

This is not a recommendation, just saying there is more to it than solid or roller, the lobe profiles make a huge difference on durability

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/CamLobeMasterCatalog.pdf

 

[383man]

My buddy runs a stock stroke 440 in his Cuda and he uses the Indy SR heads which he has the external oil lines for the heads. He was burning pushrod cup ends (turning blue) and he took the oil restrictor out that Indy told him to use. Problem solved after he took the oil restrictors out. I use the EZ heads with the stock oiling and I have not had any problems at all with my pushrod cup ends burning. Ron

 

[Budnicks]

Treads on the adjuster bolt/balls sticking out too far under the rocker
more than 3 full threads showing, can starve the push-rod cups of oil too,
oil drains over them & flies off if "allegedly" they are too far out...

Seems to be correct, not just an ol' wives tale
In my experiences, the only time I've ever had an issue
was when the push rods were too short
& I had too many threads sticking out after proper lash/preload...

Sometimes the ol'farts have the right idea too...

That's been a rule of thumb so to speak for as long as I remember
on any style of adj. rockers on most all Mopar Wedges...

your experience may vary & opinions will too I'm sure

 

[lewtot184]

i've posted this before. think about this before setting up the geometry. the two threads showing thing is obsolete. the adjusters that needed the "extended length" haven't been made for many years. with the newer adjusters go for zero threads showing. the top two adjusters in the photo are no longer made and the old "two threads showing" referred to them. the two bottom adjusters in the photo is what we have to deal with now and notice the ball is extended about .100" which is very close to the "two threads" of the older ones. getting the ball/cup too far from the rocker oil feed hole causes issues and also the poor geometry stresses the adjuster and can cause it to break. anything thing; i don't believe in any type of oil restrictors when using the factory rocker shaft oiling. external oiling like an indy head, perhaps, but keep in mind big springs have to have oil to cool them. springs and heat don't go well together.

 

[Mike Gaines]

I think with all of these discussions about the pitfalls of roller cams that I will just stick to my plain old solid lifter cam and be content with going a little slower....lol.
My cam:
COMP part# 23-633-5
Gross Valve Lift: Intake-.590 Exhaust-.609
Duration @.050: Intake: 274 Exhaust: 282
Valve Springs: Comp# 928-16
and I have 1.6 ratio roller rockers

 

[66Satellite47]

This really has been an interesting thread. The distinction between hydraulic roller & solid roller durability is still not totally clear to me. Hydraulic roller with the proper cam profile for "street" application sure seems to make sense. For drag racing, solids are straight forward, durable & proven for the intended use. Solid rollers for drag use clearly allow for much more radical lift rates. Newer solid lifter cam profiles, I'm told by my qualified builder, are much more capable of the performance levels, but maintain the inherent durability of the solid. My roller experience is 30 years old & I didn't have roller problems, but spring problems. It's clear that springs have come a LONG way since the 80's. I'm going with a solid lifter cam on my new motor, and planning on not letting valve lash get out of control. My only "broken" motor came from a backed off adjuster, lost pushrod & lifter, no oil pressure during the run, seized bearings. I will be installing a LARGE low pressure warning lite with my new motor after recalling this failure.

Mike are those lift numbers with the 1.6 rockers?

 

[lewtot184]

something else that i think is important, actually very important, is to check/verify rocker ratio. the location of the adjuster can effect geometry and true ratio determines coil bind/retainer to guide clearance. always verify the ratio!

 

[67coronetman]

Awesome to see everyone give there take on what this Thread ....

Thanks.