Solid roller, is it worth it?

[dvw]

System looks great. However I'd still drop it. That way you'll know if its the mufflers. My street car runs 11.0 thru 3" with ultra flows. Removing the exhaust is worth less than .05, and that's most likely the weight. Has the compression ratio been measured? Or is it a guess? Was the cam degreed? Was TDC verified?
Doug

 

[kjalltrac]

System looks great. However I'd still drop it. That way you'll know if its the mufflers. My street car runs 11.0 thru 3" with ultra flows. Removing the exhaust is worth less than .05, and that's most likely the weight. Has the compression ratio been measured? Or is it a guess? Was the cam degreed? Was TDC verified?
Doug

I believe my mufflers can hurt my mph.
Comp ratio has been measured.
Tdc is correct.
Cam was degreed

 

[PRHeads]

May be worth something..... may not be....... but it’s a free test.
Try shifting sooner...... like 54-5500.

My re-ringed 68 440 with Napa store rebuilt 346 heads went low 12’s shifting right at 5000.

That had a lil red truck converter with the weight knocked off it, headers, 4.10’s, 10.5 x 29.5 slicks.

Best ever was a 12.12@112...... right about 5500 through the lights.

Lighter than your car though..... about 3550 race weight.

 

[BSB67]

May be worth something..... may not be....... but it’s a free test.
Try shifting sooner...... like 54-5500.

My re-ringed 68 440 with Napa store rebuilt 346 heads went low 12’s shifting right at 5000.

That had a lil red truck converter with the weight knocked off it, headers, 4.10’s, 10.5 x 29.5 slicks.

Best ever was a 12.12@112...... right about 5500 through the lights.

Lighter than your car though..... about 3550 race weight.

What Cam?

 

[dvw]

I believe my mufflers can hurt my mph.
Comp ratio has been measured.
Tdc is correct.
Cam was degreed

So the list of suspects is getting shorter. Something is killing MPH. Do the easy stuff first. If nothing shows, I'd be betting converter.
Doug

 

[kjalltrac]

So the list of suspects is getting shorter. Something is killing MPH. Do the easy stuff first. If nothing shows, I'd be betting converter.
Doug

I have a huges prostreet 30 11" (3000 stall) tc.
I admit that it feels like it has some slippage, I haven't really payed attention to my finish line rpm.
The tc has about 2400 braking rpm and flashes to about 3800.
I see that most uses a 9.5" tc, maby better of with a 3500 rpm 9.5"

 

[BSB67]

I have a huges prostreet 30 11" (3000 stall) tc.
I admit that it feels like it has some slippage, I haven't really payed attention to my finish line rpm.
The tc has about 2400 braking rpm and flashes to about 3800.
I see that most uses a 9.5" tc, maby better of with a 3500 rpm 9.5"

Long long ago, I had a friend that had an inexpensive converter. "Hole Shot" or "Super Hole Shot" or something like that. It picked up like .2 in 60 ft, but lost like 3-4 mph.

 

[dvw]

I've personally done converter swaps and picked up .3-.5. Throwing a generic converter in the car can be a crap shoot. I'd exhaust everything else 1st.
Doug

 

[PRHeads]

Russ, that old re-ringed 440 had the Crower 271hdp.
Great cam in a mild combo like that.

As for the Hughes converter....... any 11” converter that flashes 3800 behind a stock stroke 440 is “highly suspect” imo...... especially when something like a “tight” TA 10” is about 3500 stall.

One of my customers from a few years ago was fighting a car that wouldn’t run what it “should”.
In the end, his new Hughes 8” converter just sucked.
Bought something else...... car worked way better.

I had another customer who had been running a Dynamic in his S/G Cuda for years.
It finally broke, and bad enough that it wasn’t repairable.
Bought a big dollar bolt together deal....... and that just never ran the number.
Multiple attempts at making it better to no avail.
It not only didn’t ET, it had no speed or reaction time.
On one combo they tried with it the speed came back, but the 60’ was really bad.

Got rid of it, bought a Hughes 8” converter. Good reaction time, good 60’....... no speed.

For comparison:
446 with KB237’s, ootb rpm heads, Comp xs282s, Holley SD, Holley 850dp, 1-7/8” headers, ductile rockers...... dynoed right at 500hp.
Put in a 3900lb 71 Charger R/T, 10” converter, 4.10’s, 28” slicks...... went 11.60’s@115-116 first day at the track with the new motor....... open headers.
That was with the old 10” converter which flashed about 4K behind that motor.

He didn’t like how it was on the street, bought a tight Dynamic 10” which flashed 3500, and was a lot better on the street.
With the exhaust closed up(3” w-flowmasters)and the new converter it’s more like high-11’s@112-113.

 

[Wookie316]

Yes I have done nothing more than a converter swap and picked up almost 3 tenths and 4 MPH. A good converter can make an engine very happy.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you invested that money into a converter vs a roller that you would get bigger bang for the buck.
Get the current combo working at peak performance is my advice.

 

[BSB67]

Russ, that old re-ringed 440 had the Crower 271hdp.
Great cam in a mild combo like that.

As for the Hughes converter....... any 11” converter that flashes 3800 behind a stock stroke 440 is “highly suspect” imo...... especially when something like a “tight” TA 10” is about 3500 stall.

One of my customers from a few years ago was fighting a car that wouldn’t run what it “should”.
In the end, his new Hughes 8” converter just sucked.
Bought something else...... car worked way better.

I had another customer who had been running a Dynamic in his S/G Cuda for years.
It finally broke, and bad enough that it wasn’t repairable.
Bought a big dollar bolt together deal....... and that just never ran the number.
Multiple attempts at making it better to no avail.
It not only didn’t ET, it had no speed or reaction time.
On one combo they tried with it the speed came back, but the 60’ was really bad.

Got rid of it, bought a Hughes 8” converter. Good reaction time, good 60’....... no speed.

For comparison:
446 with KB237’s, ootb rpm heads, Comp xs282s, Holley SD, Holley 850dp, 1-7/8” headers, ductile rockers...... dynoed right at 500hp.
Put in a 3900lb 71 Charger R/T, 10” converter, 4.10’s, 28” slicks...... went 11.60’s@115-116 first day at the track with the new motor....... open headers.
That was with the old 10” converter which flashed about 4K behind that motor.

He didn’t like how it was on the street, bought a tight Dynamic 10” which flashed 3500, and was a lot better on the street.
With the exhaust closed up(3” w-flowmasters)and the new converter it’s more like high-11’s@112-113.

Thanks. I know nothing about converters, but have concluded years ago from observation that low $, large diameter, high stall is probably not good. I know that is a probably somewhat of an ignorant over simplification. Sounds like you can spend $$$ and still get a turd.

 

[Wookie316]

I have an 8” PTC that would probably kick that thing in the rear. But wouldn’t be great on the street.

 

[PRHeads]

I’d be looking for no more than 6% slippage at the stripe out of an 11” converter.
The lil red converter in my car flashed right about 3000 and slipped about 4.5% behind that mild 440.


106mph, 3.73’s, 26” tire....... looks like it would be right about 5100 thru the lights without converter slip(driveshaft rpm).
Be interesting to see what the slippage is.

My assessment of street converters is similar to Russ’.
Large diameter and high stall, in a heavy vehicle isn’t usually great.

Any chassis dynos near you that you can try the car on?

If I were looking to replace what’s in the car now, for a stock stroke 440 with a [email protected] hyd cam, I’d talk to Dynamic, PTC, and Ultimate about getting as tight of a 9.5” as they can make, and see what they felt the flash stall would be in that combo.

Imo, what you’re looking for is that elusive combination of high stall(3800-4000) on the line and really good efficiency when you’re in high gear.

My main concern with this combo is the fast rate hyd cam.
I’ve had poor luck with those on the dyno in the upper rpms.
If the valvetrain is unhappy in the rpm range where the motor could need to operate to get you in that 112mph zone........ it’s just not going to get there.

That same cam you have was the first XE am I tried in a BB Mopar.
It was a 446 with bowl ported 906’s and a 6bbl. I had Isky dual springs on the heads and ran HS 1.5 rockers.
It started getting unhappy at 5600 with that motor, and the power dropped off pretty quickly after that.

The follow up to that is, I was unhappy enough with the cam, and the rocker noise, that I replaced it with a Crane H-302-2, which did everything better in that particular motor.
More tq, more hp, revved a few hundred rpm higher, noticeably less noise.
In a 70 Challenger RT/SE with power windows and a sunroof, 3.91’s, 29” slicks, tight TA 10” converter...... it went 12.30’s at 113.
Ran great for a couple years...... then he decided Mobil 1 would be a good idea, and it promptly ate the cam.
I ended up putting a Magnum 292s solid cam in it, which felt stronger in the car....... but it never went back to the track.

 

[kjalltrac]

I’d be looking for no more than 6% slippage at the stripe out of an 11” converter.
The lil red converter in my car flashed right about 3000 and slipped about 4.5% behind that mild 440.


106mph, 3.73’s, 26” tire....... looks like it would be right about 5100 thru the lights without converter slip(driveshaft rpm).
Be interesting to see what the slippage is.

My assessment of street converters is similar to Russ’.
Large diameter and high stall, in a heavy vehicle isn’t usually great.

Any chassis dynos near you that you can try the car on?

If I were looking to replace what’s in the car now, for a stock stroke 440 with a [email protected] hyd cam, I’d talk to Dynamic, PTC, and Ultimate about getting as tight of a 9.5” as they can make, and see what they felt the flash stall would be in that combo.

Imo, what you’re looking for is that elusive combination of high stall(3800-4000) on the line and really good efficiency when you’re in high gear.

My main concern with this combo is the fast rate hyd cam.
I’ve had poor luck with those on the dyno in the upper rpms.
If the valvetrain is unhappy in the rpm range where the motor could need to operate to get you in that 112mph zone........ it’s just not going to get there.

That same cam you have was the first XE am I tried in a BB Mopar.
It was a 446 with bowl ported 906’s and a 6bbl. I had Isky dual springs on the heads and ran HS 1.5 rockers.
It started getting unhappy at 5600 with that motor, and the power dropped off pretty quickly after that.

The follow up to that is, I was unhappy enough with the cam, and the rocker noise, that I replaced it with a Crane H-302-2, which did everything better in that particular motor.
More tq, more hp, revved a few hundred rpm higher, noticeably less noise.
In a 70 Challenger RT/SE with power windows and a sunroof, 3.91’s, 29” slicks, tight TA 10” converter...... it went 12.30’s at 113.
Ran great for a couple years...... then he decided Mobil 1 would be a good idea, and it promptly ate the cam.
I ended up putting a Magnum 292s solid cam in it, which felt stronger in the car....... but it never went back to the track.

Ptc suggests a 9.5 with 3500-3800 stall.
As for Dynamics, for some reason my email just bounces back from them.
I do have a chassie dyno near my location.

 

[PRHeads]

I’m not even all that interested in what the hp number is on the chassis dyno....... more interested in seeing what the power curve looks like from 5000-6000rpm.
It would also give you a good idea of what the slippage is.

I would probably lean towards a PTC or Ultimate converter myself.

 

[Wookie316]

Lenny is a good guy to talk to at Ultimate.

 

[dvw]

Lenny is a good guy to talk to at Ultimate.

Lenny's stuff works. He's great to deal with. My race car has one from Lenny. Who would think a 900hp 572 with 15-1 comp would need 6000 flash stall? PTC makes a great street/strip converter for about $500. Kenny Ford is great to deal with as well. I threw an old B&M super holeshot in my street car. It ran 11.60@121. 2 weeks later it had a Turbo Action 8". Went 11.05@122. Same air conditions. Since then with the PTC 9 1/2" its run 11.0's as well.
Doug

 

[66Satellite47]

To the original post, IMHO you don't have enough motor to justify a solid roller, sorry to be blunt. I agree with post 11. A mid to high .500 lift with 245 -255 ish @.050 solid flat tappet will get you what you need. Rollers are too damn expensive unless you need that last .03 seconds. Converters are a weird crap shoot. I had a Turbo Action tight 10" recently that ran great, my current is a 9 1/2 Dynamic, but check with Dynamic, Ultimate, Coan & see what they say.

 

[kjalltrac]

FTI thought a 2600-2800 stall tq would suit my combo? I would like something like 3500-3800 stall tq.
PTC suggested just a 3600-3800 tq.
Gave both companies exactly the same information.
Im leaning towards a solid flat tappet cam after all the comments in this thread (thanks)
Added the cut outs today.

 

[PRHeads]

FTI thought a 2600-2800 stall tq would suit my combo? I would like something like 3500-3800 stall tq.
PTC suggested just a 3600-3800 tq.
Gave both companies exactly the same information.

That’s the typical....... ask 5 people..... get 5 answers scenario.

You’d have a really hard time convincing me to run a 2600-2800 stall in your combo if the goal is improving the ET.

Nice job with the cut outs.