Solid roller, is it worth it?

[66Satellite47]

I would "guess" a 10" with the "3500 stall speed" is a good starting point. I have run many converters & many brands. Each is it's own. The Turbo Action "tight 10" that I had would be great for you. Don't know if that's what you would get if you ordered it. But torque converters make the car. IMHO. 2600-2800 is a DOG, barely moving.

 

[PRHeads]

torque converters make the car.

Agreed.

And the opposite is true.

If the converter sux..... they never run the number they should.
You can waste a ton of time and effort trying to make more power, tuning, etc...... but if the converter isn’t good, you never see the true results of the changes that were made(if you see any changes at all).

 

[66Satellite47]

Damn, PR we agree on pretty much everything!

 

[67Satty]

I have a similar combo to yours and I don't think your 60 is as good as it could be. If I run a 1.74 60 foot I'm either mad or scratching my head wondering why I didn't hook up. One difference in our combos is that I run a Dynamic 9.5" 4200 converter. Another thing you could try is splicing some cutouts into your exhaust system. Your E Streets should flow way better than my stock 452s so I also agree there is some hidden power somewhere. Maybe play around with the timing or lifter preload?

 

[kjalltrac]

I have a similar combo to yours and I don't think your 60 is as good as it could be. If I run a 1.74 60 foot I'm either mad or scratching my head wondering why I didn't hook up. One difference in our combos is that I run a Dynamic 9.5" 4200 converter. Another thing you could try is splicing some cutouts into your exhaust system. Your E Streets should flow way better than my stock 452s so I also agree there is some hidden power somewhere. Maybe play around with the timing or lifter preload?

I just installed cutouts the other day.
The lifter preload is set at 1/2 turn.
I believe the converter is my main problem.

How fast are you going? Gearing?

 

[67Satty]

I have 3.91 gears with 27" tall tires and only have 1/8 mile times for you. I've run a best 60 foot of 1.66, best ET 7.82, best MPH 87 at a track with DA that ranges from 2000-4000. What do your 1/8 mile times look like in comparison? What's the DA at your track?

Suspension: 3400# SS springs, 90/10 Calverts, Competition Engineering rear shocks. M/T 255 drag radials.

 

[kjalltrac]

I have 3.91 gears with 27" tall tires and only have 1/8 mile times for you. I've run a best 60 foot of 1.66, best ET 7.82, best MPH 87 at a track with DA that ranges from 2000-4000. What do your 1/8 mile times look like in comparison? What's the DA at your track?

Suspension: 3400# SS springs, 90/10 Calverts, Competition Engineering rear shocks. M/T 255 drag radials.

I have no DA for the track.
I do not have a 1/8 mile slip as it was not functioning at the time I went 12.48.
I also have 3400lbs ss springs and 10/90 cheap summit shocks front

 

[66Satellite47]

A good torque converter will improve ET. I'm surprised the E Street heads don't make more power. A bigger cam will help.

 

[kjalltrac]

Update.
As you know the car went 12.47s @106mph
60 foot 1.74sec in 2018.
I asked if a solid roller cam was worth the money or if I should look elsewhere to put my money.
Since then I've added cutouts and larger fuel lines and a new fuel pump (mech).
I also run a velocity stack.
Best et last summer.
[email protected]
1/8- [email protected]
60' 1.74sec
So, bigger fuel lines and open exhaust made it faster.
But, It still feels sooo sluggish after 5000 rpm.
Had forget about this thread and wanted to give you an update.
Still chasing an 11sec pass.

 

[66Satellite47]

BTW, when I was talking about converters, I did mean Frank Lupo's Dynamic. There are other "dynamics" that are not at all worth it. If you don't have a good electric fuel pump at the rear, your fuel delivery is suspect for a 11 second car. That may be the sluggish after 5000 rpm. How large are the fuel lines? Solid roller is a waste of lots of money. Good flat solid is good for over 700 HP & low 10's.

 

[BSB67]

Update.
As you know the car went 12.47s @106mph
60 foot 1.74sec in 2018.
I asked if a solid roller cam was worth the money or if I should look elsewhere to put my money.
Since then I've added cutouts and larger fuel lines and a new fuel pump (mech).
I also run a velocity stack.
Best et last summer.
[email protected]
1/8- [email protected]
60' 1.74sec
So, bigger fuel lines and open exhaust made it faster.
But, It still feels sooo sluggish after 5000 rpm.
Had forget about this thread and wanted to give you an update.
Still chasing an 11sec pass.

What was the difference in atmospheric conditions between the two runs? You have to account for this, otherwise you'll come to incorrect conclusions. If the atmospheric conditions were exactly the same between those two runs, your changes were worth 30 HP, if everything else was constant.

FWIW, I've been to the track on back to back weekends, and the weather difference was worth 2 mph and 0.20 sec in et. It can be more summer to late fall.

 

[kjalltrac]

Fuel lines are 3/8, afr shows 12.8ish at the top end, so I dont think its a fuel problem.
I think it may be the hydraulic lifters.
Might put solid lifters in and test?

 

[kjalltrac]

What was the difference in atmospheric conditions between the two runs? You have to account for this, otherwise you'll come to incorrect conclusions. If the atmospheric conditions were exactly the same between those two runs, your changes were worth 30 HP, if everything else was constant.

FWIW, I've been to the track on back to back weekends, and the weather difference was worth 2 mph and 0.20 sec in et. It can be more summer to late fall.

Well, I really don't know, but I raced 2 different tracks over 2 days (3 tracks/3 days in 2018), like a mini drag week.
And the car performed better et:s every run and under any conditions last summer then in 2018. So I figure open exhaust really helped

 

[66Satellite47]

Still beware of the fuel delivery, keeping the fuel bowl level consistent is important. No doubt switching to a solid lifter cam would help. All my drag race (+6500 RPM) motors have used solid flat tappet or solid rollers. by the way, my antique mushroom lifter(solid) cam made about the same power as my best/biggest solid rollers. My baseline solid is a .565/.585 260/[email protected].

 

[RemCharger]

I've never heard of putting solid lifters on a hyd cam. But. when i built my 383 years ago, i used the pro magnum lifters from comp, which essentially is a solid lifter. set them at .002-.004 preload hot. Then all of those questions are out of the equation. it was an xe 284

 

[kjalltrac]

I've never heard of putting solid lifters on a hyd cam. But. when i built my 383 years ago, i used the pro magnum lifters from comp, which essentially is a solid lifter. set them at .002-.004 preload hot. Then all of those questions are out of the equation. it was an xe 284

Mine is a xe284h.
Seen some dyno articles about putting solids on a hydraulic cam because of losing power over 5-5500rpm

 

[Budnicks]

Mine is a xe284h.
Seen some dyno articles about putting solids on a hydraulic cam because of losing power over 5-5500rpm

#1 that was probably solid rollers on a "billet" hydraulic roller camshaft
most all roller cams are "billet"
with a less aggressive ramp speed & overall profile etc. (among other tech. ****)
& it only made like 10 hp more or less ?,
on a hyd. cam that wasn't designed for it
than the hydr. roller they use, normally did,
is 10 hp worth that, either direction ?
that's for someone else to decide,
if you don't have a dyno it's had to tell
unless you can make back to back runs
in the exact same conditions at the track,
all including weather, temp, AD, prep, altitude etc.
if it's an all out race dedicated engine then yes it it
the engine they used was a 383ci SBC mule with a crane hydr. roller
(that they used solid roller lifters on that cam, no other changes)
they are some of the best hyd. roller lifters on the market,
especially for under $1000

anyway !!!!

it's a total no no to do that with a flat tappet camshaft
swapping styles of lifters, especially a hyd. cam with solid lifters
there's some that have had a tad of success with a "new" Hyd. lifter on a solid profile
it ain't recommended

as response to #1
Freiburger did that in his Engine Masters Series it was on MotorTrend TV recently

 

[kjalltrac]

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/solid-lifters-on-hydraulic-cam/
Seen it been done several times with success.
If I remember correctly, lq52 on this forum did it on a xe275hl cam.
Even people put in a solid rod inside the hydraulic lifter to make them solid.
I'm probably not going to do that, but would be an interesting test.

 

[IQ52]

Yes I used solid lifters on a XE285HL.

 

[PRHeads]

It still feels sooo sluggish after 5000 rpm.

That’s because you haven’t corrected the cause of that problem....... the lifters.

You can try the solids, but you’ll have to re-break in the cam, and you’ll need longer pushrods(and an adjustable valvetrain if you don’t already have one).

If you’re going to that much trouble, you might as well swap to an actual solid lifter cam at the same time.