Squealing Noise and Oil to the Rockers

[Franks500]

One more thought, how hard did the dampner come off the crank? It should have quite a bit of resistance coming off and on.
When doing mine, I didn't think it was going to go all the way but it did.

It was real hard to get off, but one thing I did notice, the bolt wasn't very tight. Not much effort with the impact. Also, the woodruff key looked a little cocked. Couldn't move it, but looked a little like it wasn't in all the way. Not the best picture but the part closest to the gear looks like it is not pressed in all the way - not sue if that means anything.

 

[khryslerkid]

It was real hard to get off, but one thing I did notice, the bolt wasn't very tight. Not much effort with the impact. Also, the woodruff key looked a little cocked. Couldn't move it, but looked a little like it wasn't in all the way. Not the best picture but the part closest to the gear looks like it is not pressed in all the way - not sue if that means anything.View attachment 497096

Ok, as long as it wasn't a loose fit. That might cause a squeak.

I'd try to get another key if you can. That one is a little beat up. You'll have to find a way to hold your flywheel to re-tighten it. 135 ft lbs.

IMPACTS ARE A NO NO!

 

[miller]

It was real hard to get off, but one thing I did notice, the bolt wasn't very tight.

Like the Kid, I'm betting the dampner wasn't seated, so the slinger wasn't tight either.
Of course, you'll have to pull the timing chain, too, to be able to pull the key. Looks like the key was your problem. Should have never gone in, without being cleaned up. Hint, I use a small pry, under one end of the key, to get them out.
Going to be hard getting the torque on that bolt, with the pan in place.

 

[Franks500]

Like the Kid, I'm betting the dampner wasn't seated, so the slinger wasn't tight either.
Of course, you'll have to pull the timing chain, too, to be able to pull the key. Looks like the key was your problem. Should have never gone in, without being cleaned up. Hint, I use a small pry, under one end of the key, to get them out.
Going to be hard getting the torque on that bolt, with the pan in place.

thanks - I'll have to search and see if there's a way to get the pan out without pulling or lifting the engine. I haven't been underneath yet. I'll also stop at the machine shop and see if he has another key from my old crank. Making progress at least. Thanks again.

 

[HT413]

Yeah you can pull the pan with the motor in place. It's a bit of a pain, but doable. The bigger pain is getting the timing cover / front oil pan gasket back on and sealing good.

 

[69roadr]

I've been reading this post and what I can tell you is put everything back together and take it back to the Builder and see what they can do they are the one responsible.

 

[Franks500]

Yeah you can pull the pan with the motor in place. It's a bit of a pain, but doable. The bigger pain is getting the timing cover / front oil pan gasket back on and sealing good.

Yup - I'd put the timing cover on first then the oil pan. That's how we did it during assembly - no leaks.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I've been following along on this post. FIRST, back on your rockers, a previous poster was correct. There are "rights" and "lefts" and you have to look very closely, but when installed correctly each pair of rockers points "inward" ever so slightly.

Also, I can't remember off the top of my head, but the oil holes on the bottom of the rocker shafts, have a definite orientation. When bolted to the heads (holes down) they point "slightly" towards the carb or away from the carb... can't remember, but it's noted in the factory service manual. IF you're are pointing the wrong direction, take the shaft off & turn it around the other way (left vs. right) & all the rockers/spacers have to be switched around the other direction.

NOW back to your squeal. Your stethoscope told you it was DEFINITELY in the timing cover area. Look very closely for metal scrape marks where something is hitting. I can't see any scrapes in your picture, but look close. There's not much up there. All I can think of that's up front is:
a) oil slinger loose or hitting timing cover
b) cam walking forward like a Chevy & hitting the timing cover
c) balancer moving around.
d) clearance issue top cam gear vs. timing cover
e) mechanical fuel pump push rod
f) maybe something weird with the crank pulley cocked sideways on the balancer

If worse comes to worse.... and I don't think this is the case because of your good oil pressure.... something in the front main bearing and/or #1/#2 rod bearing. You can drop the pan from under the car by just dropping down the drag ling (remove at pitman arm + idler arm & leave attached to tie rods so alignment will still be OK).

As for tightening the crank bolt. Definitely use an impact wrench and see if you can find a way to jam the flywheel or ring gear (inspection cover or starter hole?) By now, "somebody" must have invented a tool to do that, but I don't know of one personally.

Oh yeah, and change out that woodruff key

 

[Franks500]

I've been following along on this post. FIRST, back on your rockers, a previous poster was correct. There are "rights" and "lefts" and you have to look very closely, but when installed correctly each pair of rockers points "inward" ever so slightly.

Also, I can't remember off the top of my head, but the oil holes on the bottom of the rocker shafts, have a definite orientation. When bolted to the heads (holes down) they point "slightly" towards the carb or away from the carb... can't remember, but it's noted in the factory service manual. IF you're are pointing the wrong direction, take the shaft off & turn it around the other way (left vs. right) & all the rockers/spacers have to be switched around the other direction.

NOW back to your squeal. Your stethoscope told you it was DEFINITELY in the timing cover area. Look very closely for metal scrape marks where something is hitting. I can't see any scrapes in your picture, but look close. There's not much up there. All I can think of that's up front is:
a) oil slinger loose or hitting timing cover
b) cam walking forward like a Chevy & hitting the timing cover
c) balancer moving around.
d) clearance issue top cam gear vs. timing cover
e) mechanical fuel pump push rod
f) maybe something weird with the crank pulley cocked sideways on the balancer

If worse comes to worse.... and I don't think this is the case because of your good oil pressure.... something in the front main bearing and/or #1/#2 rod bearing. You can drop the pan from under the car by just dropping down the drag ling (remove at pitman arm + idler arm & leave attached to tie rods so alignment will still be OK).

As for tightening the crank bolt. Definitely use an impact wrench and see if you can find a way to jam the flywheel or ring gear (inspection cover or starter hole?) By now, "somebody" must have invented a tool to do that, but I don't know of one personally.

Oh yeah, and change out that woodruff key

Thanks - When I re-insalled the rockers, I made sure that the oil holes were on the carburetor side of the shaft - started the car and got oil flow, but still had the noise.
a) - Good possibility - but I looked real close and could not find any scatches inside the cover - even the inside edge from the chain.
b) - I hope not. The only way I'd be able to tell is if the chain is not straight in relation to the sprockets.
c) - Quite possible since the bolt was not as tight as 135 ft lbs was to get it on - however, I had a heck of a time pulling it off. I may have another balancer - hope I can use it.
d) - It is an after market cover. Original one is shot. Someone (prev owner) tried removing the oil seal and damaged it. But again, no sign of scraping.
e) - Checked that and it looked okay
f) - Wouldn't I have seen a wobble while running?

Yes - I stopped at the shop and got a new key. It'll probably be a bear removing the old one especially while still in the car. I am going to take the oil filter there as well and open it up. But I did not see any filings in the old oil.

Thanks for your help!!

 

[oldbee]

Before ya go any farther I'm questioning ur last post. Shaft oil holes shud be pointing slightly towards valves, not the carb. I think KK put up the correct pic on the 1st or 2nd page. Also if you have any f.pump related noise I wud think the stethoscope would pick that up at the pump location even stronger.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Before ya go any farther I'm questioning ur last post. Shaft oil holes shud be pointing slightly towards valves, not the carb. I think KK put up the correct pic on the 1st or 2nd page. Also if you have any f.pump related noise I wud think the stethoscope would pick that up at the pump location even stronger.

I think oldbee knows on this....It's not your "squeal" most likely, but you do want your valve gear to get oil on a new engine.

I actually kinda sucks that you can't see "something" scraped or a little bit shiny under the timing cover. Maybe check behind the lower timing chain gear? (on the crank) I just realized that it could be the LOWER gear scraping on something making your squeal...on the back side where you can't see with it on there....and it does get located by that chewed up woodruff key you've got on there.

And don't worry, you can get that woodruff key out. Someone earlier posted a screwdriver technique. I did it once and think I used an ice pick or tiny screw driver to get under the woodruff key & it popped right out. I screwed up my ice pick, but who cares? Got the key out! Just gently tap the new one in front/back/front/back with a small, light hammer until it looks even. I think they sell those at some good, old Ace Hardware stores, but I'd still buy one online to make sure it's exactly the right one (or parts store if they have it).

 

[dryheat]

What I do to tighten the front crankshaft bolt is have a buddy hold a large flat blade screw driver against the bell housing and in the teeth of the flywheel. It might slip once or twice while you are applying the torque but it sure beat pulling the pan.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

What I do to tighten the front crankshaft bolt is have a buddy hold a large flat blade screw driver against the bell housing and in the teeth of the flywheel. It might slip once or twice while you are applying the torque but it sure beat pulling the pan.

This sounds like a good idea....maybe a "jumbo" screwdriver or a pry bar

 

[khryslerkid]

As for tightening the crank bolt. Definitely use an impact wrench and see if you can find a way to jam the flywheel or ring gear (inspection cover or starter hole?) By now, "somebody" must have invented a tool to do that, but I don't know of one personally.

You go ahead and use a impact on your crank but I'll stick to a strong bar, then a torque wrench.

You can go to your local parts supply house and rent a dampner installation kit. It comes with a longer bolt that will get the dampner started and press it close enough to use the factory bolt. (No Hammering) Make sure you have plenty of threads to finish the job. Final torque 135 ft. lbs.

You have to get inventive when holding a crank to retorque the dampner. The torque converter bolts run real close to the block. You can have an assistant hold a flat bar against the block and let a converter bolt wedge against it while you're doing the final torque.

 

[Franks500]

Before ya go any farther I'm questioning ur last post. Shaft oil holes shud be pointing slightly towards valves, not the carb. I think KK put up the correct pic on the 1st or 2nd page. Also if you have any f.pump related noise I wud think the stethoscope would pick that up at the pump location even stronger.

oldbee - yes, the holes are pointed down like kk said - there is oil getting to the rockers. I did have the scope on the pump and didn't hear anything - only below (the only place I could see the cover) on the timing cover. That is the only place on the engine that I heard the noise.

 

[Franks500]

You go ahead and use a impact on your crank but I'll stick to a strong bar, then a torque wrench.

You can go to your local parts supply house and rent a dampner installation kit. It comes with a longer bolt that will get the dampner started and press it close enough to use the factory bolt. (No Hammering) Make sure you have plenty of threads to finish the job. Final torque 135 ft. lbs.

You have to get inventive when holding a crank to retorque the dampner. The torque converter bolts run real close to the block. You can have an assistant hold a flat bar against the block and let a converter bolt wedge against it while you're doing the final torque.

It looks like the dampener was banged on at one time with a sledge. We used a block of wood and consistent tapping to get it on enough to start the bolt

 

[khryslerkid]

It looks like the dampener was banged on at one time with a sledge. We used a block of wood and consistent tapping to get it on enough to start the bolt

Make sure your dampner is in good condition also. Look at the isolator material for major cracking, rust between it and the metal, signs of slipping or being crooked with the two pieces.

 

[Franks500]

Quick question if anyone is reading this - Is it necessary to cut the old and use a new gasket for the oil pan below the timing cover? The old one looks like it's in good condition. Thanks

 

[5.7 hemi]

I would put a skim of rtv on the gasket.

 

[miller]

Is it necessary to cut the old and use a new gasket for the oil pan below the timing cover?

That's part of your oil pan gasket, so, as long as it's in one piece, leave it alone. Just get it as clean as possible, and just before installing the chain cover, put a good sealer on it.

Personally, I'd frown on using an impact on the crank bolt. As long as the new key is in good shape, all the parts have a better chance of pulling into place, and bottoming out, just using a breaker bar. You had a hard time getting the dampner off, because of the screwed up key.
Good luck on it! Yup, anyway you can lock-down the motor, you can get the torque on that bolt. FUN.