Starter gear not engaging TC

[Dustyrides]

I have a 440 RB, automatic trans with a short high torque starter. When the bendix drive gear pops out it hits the ring gear and spins without engaging the teeth. Like the centerlines of the 2 gears are too close together. With the starter bolts loose there doesn't seem to be any available adjustment to move the starter away from the ring gear diameter. It's a new build and the starter worked for a few cranks when priming the oil and fuel pumps but then started this issue. I'm wondering if this is common with the small starters and if anyone has encountered and overcame this problem.
Thanks for reading.

 

[steve340]

Unsure what is wrong as it could be a lot of things. And you are correct as far as I know there is no adjustment.
With the battery disconnected you should be able to manually bring the starter drive gear in to engagement.
The teeth should have a little "backlash" - If you can't something is off.
Start there - good luck finding the problem.

 

[Tony 69]

Are the starters the same for automatic and manual?

 

[R413]

Did it work with a different starter?

there is no adjustment and none is needed.

you could simply have a bad starter.

 

[Dustyrides]

Are the starters the same for automatic and manual?

Good question, I'll check my part number. I did manually move the drive gear out and it interferes that way too. It's a complete rebuild and the old starter was completely different design (original style). Sounds like the starter is either bad or incorrect. I was hoping I overlooked something easier than dropping the header.

 

[R413]

Leave the header in there and just remove the steering column

 

[Dustyrides]

Removing the steering column does sound less painful.

 

[Dustyrides]

Swapped starter out and replaced with one I know is good. The new starter worked for a few turns then the same symptom, the starter is either not engaging or just slightly engaging enough to turn the engine for a partial revolution. Photo shows where teeth are engaged and the corner of several TC gear teeth are chewed up. I don't have any adjustment as far as tooth clearance, not sure what to try next.

 

[steve340]

That big fat flex plate could have something to do with the problem perhaps??
Not sure but how thick is that part?

 

[RemCharger]

Assuming you're talking about a newer mini starter.. they were developed long after big blocks were a memory.
In many cases, if not most, you have to clearance the block in that big inside arch where the starter goes. Do it enough so that the starter can bolt up flat and free to the Trans bellhousing. It's likely cocked in there.

 

[Fran Blacker]

That bolt on flex may interfere with bendix? It could be the picture but flex tight at bolt not in foreground.

 

[Tony 69]

I agree with Fran. The ring gear doesn’t look bolted down all the way onto the flex plate. And the teeth on the ring gear look like they are taking a direct hit on the front instead of between the teeth. It also appears the starter is not doing deep enough into the teeth. I would recheck part numbers on everything.

 

[Dustyrides]

I am using a mini starter. From what I can see, both starters have fit flush against the transmission case. I don't completely understand the comment about the bolt on the flex plate interfering but I will look into it. Can anyone attest to having used one of these thicker flex plates and if they had to make special accommodations for the starter to work?

 

[RemCharger]

That's your standard b&m flex plate, they don't interfere.
Look for witness marks where the part of the starter is near the block.

 

[RemCharger]

This block I have, you can see it was rubbing, should have been ground on but wasn't.
I will be relieving that area before I install it.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Bendix diameter I thought might be a problem, probably not. You would see marks on bendix or on bolt.

 

[Dustyrides]

I eventually came to the conclusion that the extra thick flex plate is the culprit. I'm not sure how many would approve of this solution, but until a better one comes along I took 3/16" off the face of the starter mounting surface. Seems to work fine, at least I know the engine runs now!

 

[RemCharger]

The B&M flex plates are between 0.010 and 0.020" thicker than stock, I measured a few.
Looks like you cut off the centering nose of the starter. That in turn, allowed the starter to move outwards relieving the "cocked in housing condition".
Now it has less teeth engagement. But if it works for a while that's great.

I would have spent the 4 seconds and put a grinder on it instead.

 

[Dustyrides]

My heavy duty flex plate is about 3/16" thick. I tried 2 starters with the same result, the other starter did not have a centering nose.

 

[steve340]

Hey it is working now - that is the main thing. Glad you got it sorted.