Steering is a nightmare...

[Mason]

Mason, I feel you don’t have the right answer just yet. This car has 56,000 miles, it may just have a couple bad parts or something falling apart. I doubt the whole thing is “shredded” unless this was a dukes backup car.

First thing - you said you have power steering, is the belt on and the fluid full?

Get a helper and check this car out. One person moves the steering wheel back an forth about 6”, the other person LOOKS at the parts to find where the slop is. Have the engine running if it is power steering. Chock the wheels and have the helper sitting in the car with foot on the brake. lay under the car and look at every moving joint and piece. Front wheels need to be on the ground to put a load on the steering. If it drives that loose you should find a problem pretty easily.

*Yes check all 3 of the steering box bolts and make sure they are tight.
*Look at the steering coupler between the box and column and make sure it is tight, not clunking and loose.
*The drag link should only move side to side, never up and down when changing from left to right steering input. Bad idler arm.
*Look at the tie rods and idler & pitman arm. Where the stud comes out of the joint should be no side to side play.
*look at the bushings and see if rubber is hanging out of them, or if the rubber is gone. They will probably look cracked, they are 50 years old, but that doesn’t mean it’s the root of the loose steering.

Note, if you have power steering the wheel will be very loose with lots of play with the engine off, and be tighter with the engine running.

Don’t just assume you need to buy all these trick parts to have you car drive good.

Find out what is WRONG with the car. Just like your huge transmission problem, it was an EASY fix.

Yeah you're right I just don't have much to go off since I couldn't move the wheel and inspect at the same time...I'll try to find a buddy to come and help out. And yeah the steering is loose almost equally with or without the engine off if that goes to show how bad it is. The fluid is full and the belt is on, just figured bushing replacement would be my best move considering everyone's first move at suspension is replacing those. I'm gonna jot down your list to have while I'm under the car and looking. Either way my car was beat to hell by the time it was parked for the last time (I think a kid got a hold of it in the 90's and ran it to the ground) Wouldn't be surprised if it has more bad than good. Been under my car more times than could count but never paid much attention to my suspension. I'll do like you said, thanks again

 

[Wojo68]

How are your welding skills?
These cars used a sturdy steel crossmember that was used to support the engine and front suspension & steering. It is referred to as a K member because it looks like the capital letter K. They can benefit from adding some reinforcements. They were built in an era when handling wasn't such a priority as it is today. The steering box is bolted to mounts on the K member that can flex and move around, making steering feel loose or sloppy. I'l admit that welding in reinforcements here is not a simple task but it is something I do on every car that I plan to keep. With the steering box solidly mounted in a reinforced K member, MORE of your steering wheel input makes it to the tire.
Another way of looking at it is to envision a scenerio where every component from the steering wheel to the tire has some amount of slop to it. The steering wheel can be turned back and forth over a quarter turn but because of the slop, the tires don't turn at all. As you replace worn parts, eventually the steering wheel can be turned LESS to get the tires to react because the slop is eliminated by replacing everything that is worn out.

Any opinions on the FF K frame reinforcement kits? I'm thinking about the same thing.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

All this talk about expensive steering boxes and welding on the K frame is probably un necessary. These cars are not bad to drive if the steering linkage is not worn out. Go back and read R413's post. I am in total agreement with him. I am willing to bet your idler arm is worn out. You need to have someone in the car just turning the steering wheel back and forth with the car off and parked on a solid surface. Watch the tie rods for any up and down or sloppy movements. Any slack or wiggle you see is part of the problem. You need to replace worn out tie rod ends and idler arm, etc. before spending bigger bucks on fancy steering boxes. I have been working with Mopar B bodys since I was a teenager back in the 1970s, and in all that time have only actually had to get into repairing and adjusting a steering gearbox once. Everything else has been in the linkages.

 

[Darter6]

And don't forget the pitman arm.The arm that attaches to the steering box,it may be worn too and it is not included in many of the suspension kits. Just a thought.

 

[Ernie ingling]

R413 is the only correct response. Shake fown the front end if all good as suspected at 56 k. Adjust steering gear and I think you’re good. Throwing money at a problem rarely corrects.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Yeah they are a pretty penny for sure, do you think I'm better off just replacing all the bushings? For the rubber in the tie rods and ball joints, they have been sitting caked in mud for decades, just wondering if they were a concern for replacement since they have been in such poor conditions

Clean it all up and have a good front end shop tell you about wear or slack in the parts. Spending money on another or rebuilt steering box until the suspension is in good shape is a waste. Bushings are the biggest cause of slop or looseness in the suspension. A basic suspension kit from PST is not that bad provided you can do all the labor, but you will need a press for the upper and lower control arm bushings.

 

[vintage chromoly]

My 68 had 37,000 original miles (verifiable as I have provenance back to the original owner).
While low on miles, just like tires, front end rubber deteriorates over 50 years time.

I’d start by rebuilding the front suspension as it’s likely all serviceable rubber needs replaced.

PST is what I used for my kit.

After I rebuilt mine, I had an old school alignment shop align it. They employ a couple old time mopar knowledgeable fellows that are familiar with old torsion bar front suspensions.

After that, I saw a drastic improvement, but I still wanted a firmer (more modern) steering input. At that point I used “Steer and gear” (Columbus Ohio) to rebuild / valve my original steering box to a “stage 3”.
Now, the car behaves like I want it to. Just like a newer car and tracks straight as an arrow (on Coker bias ply tires, no less).

On a side note, to be 18 again.....
Just think, In 20 to 25 years you can buy up a bunch of old mopars as very few will want them once the biggest demographic (boomers) is gone.

Good luck with your project!

 

[Darter6]

Yep when we oldsters are dead and gone the price of these cars will drop drastically. Plus they will be outlawed in the not too distant future. But we are having fun with our cars in the here and now,that's for sure.
It is nice to see some of the younger guys and gals that show interest in this hobby. I commend you young man,go forth,and may the tools be with you !

 

[wahya]

Are you sure about the 56000 miles? Think I read that you are 18 and car has been parked for over 20. Was wondering if the car has been passed down from family or someone else you trust. My car had about 50000 miles showing on odometer when I started restoring. I knew that the odometer was on its third trip around. I also knew that the lower bushings had never been replaced. When we went to pull the lca’s, one of the pivots just fell out. The rubber was almost gone.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Clean it all up and have a good front end shop tell you about wear or slack in the parts. Spending money on another or rebuilt steering box until the suspension is in good shape is a waste. Bushings are the biggest cause of slop or looseness in the suspension. A basic suspension kit from PST is not that bad provided you can do all the labor, but you will need a press for the upper and lower control arm bushings.

Done 3 sets without a press. Yes it would have been nice. But it can be done.

 

[440 4 speed]

If the car has power steering, Mopar Action had a good article, I think called Pump it Up. It’s about making steering better using a Saginaw pump and changing pressure. One of the 67 Chargers has about 80,000 miles on it. Original power steering pump, and steers well. We did all of the other bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends etc.
In the near future I will be doing that again. As of now I have manual steering. Might get to a time when I need power steering.
As other recommendations, do the less expensive first. My thoughts.

 

[70chall440]

Also where did y'all get rebuilds or new stage 2 and 3 steering boxes?

Firm Feel

 

[Ernie ingling]

This may help ifu r&r
No photographer

 

[70chall440]

Mason - as I am sure you are gleaning from all of these responses is that you need to take this in stages, first try and determine what is wrong before throwing parts at it. Some of who have/are building these cars automatically start fresh and rebuild everything so we know where we are, in your case you are doing it "old school" because money is an issue, thus you need to approach this methodically and with purpose UNLESS you are planning on completely rebuilding the entire car (which it does not sound like you are doing).

Think about it this way, there is what you need and there is what you want; if you are driving it then go after what you need. As time goes on, you can chase what you want.

As to welding the K member, I completely agree with doing this IF you are going to be running fatter front tires, driving it hard, etc. It is not something you HAVE to do right now, however I can tell you with 100% certainty that with even moderately fat tires in the front (probably even stock) the box will flex on the K frame. Firm Feel has a sector support kit to help this situation ($135 and bolts in). I do not think it completely fixes this but I am sure it helps and does not require any welding.

Since you are 18 and have jumped into the classic car world with both feet (which is excellent by the way), let me share a little information with you; there are lots of ways to accomplish any given situation usually and there are lots of opinions as to what is the best solution or path, you need to determine what best meets your needs and circumstances. It is very easy to get "mission creep" meaning you need something simple but then see all of the cool "better" parts and what should be a low dollar fix becomes a monster. Every car guy on here has been through this; you hear about it all the time where a guy started a "light" repair or refresh and now it is 10 years later and the car is blown apart with no end i sight. IMO the best thing you can do is fix the car has you drive and enjoy it, its what I did growing up (when no one was restoring these things because they were 2-8 years old).

Enough preaching, I am glad to see someone young get involved into the hobby.

 

[440 4 speed]

Couldn’t say it any better than that!!!

 

[Jerry Hall]

Mason - as I am sure you are gleaning from all of these responses is that you need to take this in stages, first try and determine what is wrong before throwing parts at it. Some of who have/are building these cars automatically start fresh and rebuild everything so we know where we are, in your case you are doing it "old school" because money is an issue, thus you need to approach this methodically and with purpose UNLESS you are planning on completely rebuilding the entire car (which it does not sound like you are doing).

Think about it this way, there is what you need and there is what you want; if you are driving it then go after what you need. As time goes on, you can chase what you want.

As to welding the K member, I completely agree with doing this IF you are going to be running fatter front tires, driving it hard, etc. It is not something you HAVE to do right now, however I can tell you with 100% certainty that with even moderately fat tires in the front (probably even stock) the box will flex on the K frame. Firm Feel has a sector support kit to help this situation ($135 and bolts in). I do not think it completely fixes this but I am sure it helps and does not require any welding.

Since you are 18 and have jumped into the classic car world with both feet (which is excellent by the way), let me share a little information with you; there are lots of ways to accomplish any given situation usually and there are lots of opinions as to what is the best solution or path, you need to determine what best meets your needs and circumstances. It is very easy to get "mission creep" meaning you need something simple but then see all of the cool "better" parts and what should be a low dollar fix becomes a monster. Every car guy on here has been through this; you hear about it all the time where a guy started a "light" repair or refresh and now it is 10 years later and the car is blown apart with no end i sight. IMO the best thing you can do is fix the car has you drive and enjoy it, its what I did growing up (when no one was restoring these things because they were 2-8 years old).

Enough preaching, I am glad to see someone young get involved into the hobby.

To this day I try to take the old school approach to repairs. I fix what is broken before I try to improve on Ma Mopar.

 

[Mason]

All this talk about expensive steering boxes and welding on the K frame is probably un necessary. These cars are not bad to drive if the steering linkage is not worn out. Go back and read R413's post. I am in total agreement with him. I am willing to bet your idler arm is worn out. You need to have someone in the car just turning the steering wheel back and forth with the car off and parked on a solid surface. Watch the tie rods for any up and down or sloppy movements. Any slack or wiggle you see is part of the problem. You need to replace worn out tie rod ends and idler arm, etc. before spending bigger bucks on fancy steering boxes. I have been working with Mopar B bodys since I was a teenager back in the 1970s, and in all that time have only actually had to get into repairing and adjusting a steering gearbox once. Everything else has been in the linkages.

Okay I'll go ahead and do that then, I'm sure there is quite a few things needing replacement either way. Hoping there will be a great improvement. Plus I was wondering why I would need a whole new replacement for a steering box anyways... a rebuild would seem reasonable considering when they came out the factory they were safe enough to get around. Just was curious, thanks for the info!

 

[Mason]

And don't forget the pitman arm.The arm that attaches to the steering box,it may be worn too and it is not included in many of the suspension kits. Just a thought.

I'll go ahead and check that out too while I'm looking for any problems. Thanks!

 

[Mason]

R413 is the only correct response. Shake fown the front end if all good as suspected at 56 k. Adjust steering gear and I think you’re good. Throwing money at a problem rarely corrects.[/QUOTE
Yeah i see what you mean. I just figured after it rotting so long the rubber would've been a goner either way.

 

[Mason]

Clean it all up and have a good front end shop tell you about wear or slack in the parts. Spending money on another or rebuilt steering box until the suspension is in good shape is a waste. Bushings are the biggest cause of slop or looseness in the suspension. A basic suspension kit from PST is not that bad provided you can do all the labor, but you will need a press for the upper and lower control arm bushings.

I'll go ahead and check out the kit and order one, I'm probably gonna spend the rest of the day under my car cleaning and looking for slop haha, thanks for the advice