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I did the common upgrades. LCA plates, welded K member, reinforced steering box mounts, torque boxes and subframe connectors.
Steering upgrades....some ideas that I'm kicking around.
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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Larrry B.
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If road noise is the biggest complaint (with no mechanical complaints) have you considered adding any type of sound deadening material to the interior?
I've done everything you have for the most part (+/-) with bare floors and no headliner, so it's loud. I'm sending my car in for some interior work shortly and will be doing this.
I've done everything you have for the most part (+/-) with bare floors and no headliner, so it's loud. I'm sending my car in for some interior work shortly and will be doing this.
themechanic
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Buy some ear plugs. Or, Fat Mat and the recycled denim product with aluminum foil on one or both sides for heat and sound abatement. I have the double sided in my Coronet and its whisper quiet.
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themechanic
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themechanic
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I added it to the floors, doors and quarters. I've heard that adding it to the roof helps but the headliner looks too good to tear out to add it there yet.
My 69 GTX with manual steering has too much play at the 11:00 to 1:00 positions, also. I would like to remedy this.
Wietse
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My stock power steering box had this slop, as it leaked i got a replacement stage 2 S&G box.
That also had this center slop, for the rest they work fine.
I got a Borgeson box incl. coupler and hoses in my garage to upgrade but have had no time for installing it as of yet.
From what i read is this is the only way to get rid of this center slop.
Adjusting the adjuster screw on the OEM box could result in failure if set too tight, also read somewhere the box could "lock up" so i never touched this.
The stock boxes are just 50+ years old design and there are better options available for those who want that tighter feel.
That also had this center slop, for the rest they work fine.
I got a Borgeson box incl. coupler and hoses in my garage to upgrade but have had no time for installing it as of yet.
From what i read is this is the only way to get rid of this center slop.
Adjusting the adjuster screw on the OEM box could result in failure if set too tight, also read somewhere the box could "lock up" so i never touched this.
The stock boxes are just 50+ years old design and there are better options available for those who want that tighter feel.
MoparGuy68
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The Borgeson box does not have any center play. That’s about all I can remember about it, as it’s been so long since I’ve been able to drive my car. Plus Kern Dog actually has headers that should clear the box, mine did not.
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I'm still thinking about the Borgeson steering chuck.
My "Jigsaw" Charger has a stock steering box but has Fast Ratio arms. This does increase the effort to turn by a slight amount. Still, with the over boosted Mopar pump, the slop in the center is barely noticed because the free play feels almost the same as when the tires actually begin to steer.
It is different with the higher effort steering box. The Stage 3 rebuild delivers a heavy feel and with the Fast Ratio arms, it is even heavier. This makes the center slop feel far worse than it is in a regular P/S car. There is this sloppy movement then it is suddenly good and firm.
I keep thinking about this and today the Wife says....
Just buy it. Why are you waiting?
That is a good woman.
My "Jigsaw" Charger has a stock steering box but has Fast Ratio arms. This does increase the effort to turn by a slight amount. Still, with the over boosted Mopar pump, the slop in the center is barely noticed because the free play feels almost the same as when the tires actually begin to steer.
It is different with the higher effort steering box. The Stage 3 rebuild delivers a heavy feel and with the Fast Ratio arms, it is even heavier. This makes the center slop feel far worse than it is in a regular P/S car. There is this sloppy movement then it is suddenly good and firm.
I keep thinking about this and today the Wife says....
Just buy it. Why are you waiting?
That is a good woman.
I installed a Firm Feel Stage 2 in my Coronet. It is a vast improvement over the stock box, and I don’t notice much center slop. Probably doesn’t help you much.
steve340
Well-Known Member
I am thinking if you go to the Borgeson go back to the stock pitman and idler arms.
The Borgeson is already a "quicker" box and it may become really twitchy or have an over steer type feel.
Peter Bergman would know.
The Borgeson is already a "quicker" box and it may become really twitchy or have an over steer type feel.
Peter Bergman would know.
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I agree. The stock setup is approximately 15.7 to 1 with stock arms, 12 to 1 with the F/R arms. The Borgeson is 14 to 1, about the same as most new cars.
Superbeemike
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Hey Kern, I’m heading over to Thunderhill on Memorial Day for a track day. I’m taking my Bee if I can get the trans finished up. You should go. It gives you a good reason to order up the steering box and get it finished.
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That sounds interesting. It isn't too far from me from what I recall.
Superbeemike
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Little over an hour north of Sac. In Willows. Cost is less than $300.
Superbeemike
Well-Known Member
Here’s some info about it….
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/hpde-at-thunderhill-raceway-memorial-day.243292/
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/hpde-at-thunderhill-raceway-memorial-day.243292/
Wietse
Well-Known Member
Fully agree with her.
I have noticed more and more people start considering het Borgeson unit, also here on FBBO.
I included one in my recent order from Summit so i have it at hand already.
You never know, no stock or discontinued can come around the corners now days.
Wietse
Well-Known Member
Wish we had such events you guys have over there, here its limited to some classic car meetings/shows.
Most of the times you find yourself standing between mostly European cars with an average engine displacement of 90 CI.....
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From Peter Bergman, owner of Bergman Auto Craft:
Before I got involved with Borgeson in 2012, I had stage 2 and 3 firm feels and one from steer and gear. I'll list my experiences:
1. Borgeson effort between stage 2 and 3 firm feel. This can be "tuned" somewhat by
A. Changing the diameter of the wheel. I feel 13.5" is ideal. This is from experience, not guessing
B. Although the Borgeson sweet spot is 1200psi, it can tolerate lower for heavier feel.
2. Borgeson ratio is 14:1 vs. 15.7. However, they are both 3.5 turns. The Borgeson turns a little more. This isn't something you really notice.Its the stops on the lower bj that limit turning.
3. Borgeson tracks better. If we subtract any argument regarding the "health" of the steering linkage, tires,etc, the new box requires less correction going down the road.
4. Borgeson box reacts instantly. This is very noticeable in a good way. The ability to come off center makes a huge difference in your confidence level when driving at speed.
5. Borgeson is made from much fewer parts/more modern construction, which mean fewer leaks. Leaks are a rare occurance once Borgeson stopped welding brackets to the housing and created a one piece casting.
Before I got involved with Borgeson in 2012, I had stage 2 and 3 firm feels and one from steer and gear. I'll list my experiences:
1. Borgeson effort between stage 2 and 3 firm feel. This can be "tuned" somewhat by
A. Changing the diameter of the wheel. I feel 13.5" is ideal. This is from experience, not guessing
B. Although the Borgeson sweet spot is 1200psi, it can tolerate lower for heavier feel.
2. Borgeson ratio is 14:1 vs. 15.7. However, they are both 3.5 turns. The Borgeson turns a little more. This isn't something you really notice.Its the stops on the lower bj that limit turning.
3. Borgeson tracks better. If we subtract any argument regarding the "health" of the steering linkage, tires,etc, the new box requires less correction going down the road.
4. Borgeson box reacts instantly. This is very noticeable in a good way. The ability to come off center makes a huge difference in your confidence level when driving at speed.
5. Borgeson is made from much fewer parts/more modern construction, which mean fewer leaks. Leaks are a rare occurance once Borgeson stopped welding brackets to the housing and created a one piece casting.
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