Steering upgrades....some ideas that I'm kicking around.

[Larrry B.]

I've been using the Borgeson unit for a couple of years now and could not be happier. I just finished up the TKX 5 speed install, with a Flaming river tilt column and a 14" diameter steering wheel it handles great.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fla-fr21025pbk
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-blk29414

For me it was a day and night difference switching from a FF Stage 2.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I'm still thinking about the Borgeson steering chuck.
My "Jigsaw" Charger has a stock steering box but has Fast Ratio arms. This does increase the effort to turn by a slight amount. Still, with the over boosted Mopar pump, the slop in the center is barely noticed because the free play feels almost the same as when the tires actually begin to steer.
It is different with the higher effort steering box. The Stage 3 rebuild delivers a heavy feel and with the Fast Ratio arms, it is even heavier. This makes the center slop feel far worse than it is in a regular P/S car. There is this sloppy movement then it is suddenly good and firm.
I keep thinking about this and today the Wife says....
Just buy it. Why are you waiting?

That is a good woman.

When you order please order the Bergman coupler so you don’t need to cut your steering shaft. Hurry up so I can drive it and then decide to order mine

 

[Kern Dog]

Yesterday I went out to the shop area and checked the free-play in 4 of the classics, all have the Mopar power steering. 1967 Dart, 72 Duster, 70 Charger (Jigsaw) and the 75 Power Wagon. The truck has a "Saginaw" steering box which was mostly a supplier to GM. All had the center slop but the 67 Dart had the least of all. The steering box in that car has not been rebuilt.
I started up Jigsaw and it was just like I had figured....the center slop gets lost in the overboosted pressure and it is hard to feel where the slop ends and where the tire turning begins. Not the case in the red car. There is a hard "edge" where the slop ends and the turning begins.

 

[steve340]

I think it may come down to the amount of work the steering box has done. I have a 68 GTX done 57,000 miles and the stock box is great.
On my Challenger done twice the mileage had the box rebuilt and it was good but not "good enough"

 

[Wietse]

the center slop gets lost in the overboosted pressure and it is hard to feel where the slop ends and where the tire turning begins.

I think this is exactly what people notice when going for smaller diameter steering wheels and/or firmer gearboxes.
Some people mention they don't have or never noticed any center slop but the above is probably the reason for people saying that.
I have some work to do on my engine in the coming day's, planning on replacing the timing chain and gears, since a lot of stuff will be removed for that i think i will pull the steering box at the same time and install my Borgeson unit.
Once i got the front end of the engine stripped i only need to lift the engine a bit and it should come out towards the front.
And these 2 jobs in 1 go, results in only 1 week with a sore back.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I guess I'm pretty lucky w my '67 Coronet. P/S and stage 2 Firmfeel. No slop anywhere. Only complaint is it doesn't come back to center super easy n tracks on the smallest irregularities on the road. Can't get more adjustment out of the front end so will eventually be going to different upper control arms.

what UCA's do you currently have?

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Not sure if you saw the other recent thread, but make sure you use the correct steering fluid with the Borgeson setup. (not Royal Purple synthetic).
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/borgeson-box-pump-hard-to-steer.241707/
From Borgeson: We have had problems with synthetic fluids, royal purple in specific, it tends to thin out too much when hot and you loose assist due to fluid pushing past piston seals. We always recommend a standard GM power steering fluid such as AC Delco 10-5073.

 

[diesel_lv]

what UCA's do you currently have?

Stock

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Stock

yeah if you get some aftermarket UCA's like Firm Feel, etc, you'll be able to dial in +4.5 degrees caster and you'll love the return to center handling.

 

[diesel_lv]

yeah if you get some aftermarket UCA's like Firm Feel, etc, you'll be able to dial in +4.5 degrees caster and you'll love the return to center handling.

Those are my plans.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Not sure if you saw the other recent thread, but make sure you use the correct steering fluid with the Borgeson setup. (not Royal Purple synthetic).
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/borgeson-box-pump-hard-to-steer.241707/
From Borgeson: We have had problems with synthetic fluids, royal purple in specific, it tends to thin out too much when hot and you loose assist due to fluid pushing past piston seals. We always recommend a standard GM power steering fluid such as AC Delco 10-5073.

I used Prestone Non-Synthetic power steering fluid in my Borgeson system. Hopefully, I’ll be able to drive my car next weekend, to refresh my memory as to how the steering feels.

 

[Wietse]

Maybe you guys have any suggestions for oil, I am struggling to find any specifications regarding the right oil, equivalent for this AC Delco mentioned above.
I do have a 1 gall bottle with ATF Dexron 2-D, would that be suitable?
Only specification I have seen online so far is GM Dexron 3, as far as I know the Dexron 2 should be compatible with Dexron 3.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Maybe you guys have any suggestions for oil, I am struggling to find any specifications regarding the right oil, equivalent for this AC Delco mentioned above.
I do have a 1 gall bottle with ATF Dexron 2-D, would that be suitable?
Only specification I have seen online so far is GM Dexron 3, as far as I know the Dexron 2 should be compatible with Dexron 3.

I use this one with my FF Stage 2. Not sure if it will work with Borgeson.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chr...E&sclient=products-cc#spd=8218309440239344574

 

[Wietse]

I got some time today to continue on the car, i already had the timing chain replaced and since a lot of stuff was removed it was easiest to do the box change also.
I had to lift the engine quite a bit and had to remove the motor mount bracket but the old fat bastard came out.
Installing the new Borgeson box was a breeze as there is lots of space, cut around 1" of the steering shaft and only have to drill the holes for the roll pins.
Lots of clearance with the TTI headers.
Only thing is the pressure hose is not really the right shape for proper installation, but i let it be as it sits since it is not contacting anything and is just in a loop shape with no twist or torsion.

Hopefully i will be driving it in the next few days.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I got some time today to continue on the car, i already had the timing chain replaced and since a lot of stuff was removed it was easiest to do the box change also.
I had to lift the engine quite a bit and had to remove the motor mount bracket but the old fat bastard came out.
Installing the new Borgeson box was a breeze as there is lots of space, cut around 1" of the steering shaft and only have to drill the holes for the roll pins.
Lots of clearance with the TTI headers.
Only thing is the pressure hose is not really the right shape for proper installation, but i let it be as it sits since it is not contacting anything and is just in a loop shape with no twist or torsion.

Hopefully i will be driving it in the next few days.

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Nice! Thanks for sharing the great photos too. Did you keep the stock power steering box or install a Borgeson?

 

[Wietse]

Nice! Thanks for sharing the great photos too. Did you keep the stock power steering box or install a Borgeson?

I assume you mean the pump, I am using the stock pump, maybe 2 years old.
Pressure and flow is acceptable according the specs for the Borgeson box so i think it is no point to buy another pump.

 

[Kern Dog]

I drove the car yesterday and was reminded of something strange. It may be alignment related or something with the slight crown of the road. Going straight, there is no slop when making a lane change to the left but there is when making a right turn. It's as if all the slop is to the right of center.
I just read a Mopar Action article where they installed a Borgeson in a 63 Savoy. They were long on tech but not real expressive on the performance of it other than a few glowing words.

I still have the Firm Feel steering box in my car.

 

[Wietse]

If the box is not installed in "center" position the sloppy center section can be towards 1 side i guess.
When installing the steering mechanisms there are af few things that need to line up to have it all centered, though removing and installing the steering wheel alone can put things out of center if not installed correctly.
Trying the full steering to each side should show a difference, say 1,5 turn to the left and 2 full turns to the right in your case.

I just read a Mopar Action article where they installed a Borgeson in a 63 Savoy. They were long on tech but not real expressive on the performance of it other than a few glowing words.

They might not drive a Mopar as much as we do and never really were disturbed by the center slop, their comparison is likely more towards firmness and steering ratio related.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I assume you mean the pump, I am using the stock pump, maybe 2 years old.
Pressure and flow is acceptable according the specs for the Borgeson box so i think it is no point to buy another pump.

yes, I meant the pump. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Kern Dog]

I just ordered the Steering box from Bergman Auto Craft. Maybe by this time next week I'll have the box of goodies and will post my usual long winded reports!

1. 
   
   
   
   
   I am quite anxious to drive the car with a tight steering box.
   I used to have a '76 Camaro with some upgrades....
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   That car had the bigger sway bars from a Trans Am, HD coil springs and an IROC 12.7 to 1 steering box. Say what you want about GM products but that car flat out handled great. The steering response was fantastic. I was really hoping to make the Charger equal to or better than the Camaro but I've always been disappointed by the Firm Feel steering box. This is no fault on the company. They surely did the best that they could with this design.
   For contrast.....
   My '67 Dart has the stock power steering which as you know, is almost effortless. It works perfectly for street use and the off road trails I drive it on. I wouldn't change anything about it. Turning on dirt can feel like turning on ice or mud so an easy effort steering gear is just fine.
   For the Charger, the higher effort magnified the feeling of the slop. This has been an eye opener for me. I thought the higher effort would be great. If there were no steering box options, I'd consider switching back to a milder Stage 2 box with stock Idler and Pitman arms to mask some of the slop.
   I have a 72 Duster, the aforementioned 67 Dart and another 70 Charger, all with power steering. The "Jigsaw" Charger has Fast Ratio arms. All are factory original steering boxes, none leak so they are staying in place. All feel pretty good on the road.