Steering upgrades....some ideas that I'm kicking around.

[Wietse]

I just had 1 hole pre drilled for the roll pins, i need to remove the steering column again to finish it off.
Not my favorite job...but after that it should be good to go for a road test.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I just ordered the Steering box from Bergman Auto Craft. Maybe by this time next week I'll have the box of goodies and will post my usual long winded reports!

1. 
   View attachment 1285701
   
   I am quite anxious to drive the car with a tight steering box.
   I used to have a '76 Camaro with some upgrades....
   
   View attachment 1285702
   
   View attachment 1285703
   
   That car had the bigger sway bars from a Trans Am, HD coil springs and an IROC 12.7 to 1 steering box. Say what you want about GM products but that car flat out handled great. The steering response was fantastic. I was really hoping to make the Charger equal to or better than the Camaro but I've always been disappointed by the Firm Feel steering box. This is no fault on the company. They surely did the best that they could with this design.
   For contrast.....
   My '67 Dart has the stock power steering which as you know, is almost effortless. It works perfectly for street use and the off road trails I drive it on. I wouldn't change anything about it. Turning on dirt can feel like turning on ice or mud so an easy effort steering gear is just fine.
   For the Charger, the higher effort magnified the feeling of the slop. This has been an eye opener for me. I thought the higher effort would be great. If there were no steering box options, I'd consider switching back to a milder Stage 2 box with stock Idler and Pitman arms to mask some of the slop.
   I have a 72 Duster, the aforementioned 67 Dart and another 70 Charger, all with power steering. The "Jigsaw" Charger has Fast Ratio arms. All are factory original steering boxes, none leak so they are staying in place. All feel pretty good on the road.

Right on!! Can't wait to hear your impressions since you have several points of reference to compare to and you also drove my car before with the FF Stage 2 and Fast Ratio Arms. Earlier in this thread it was posted what Bergman himself said (that the Borgeson box feels in-between FF Stage 2 and Stage 3, but without the off-center dead spot). I'll be anxious to hear from you if you agree with that statement and hopefully also do a driving comparison with my car.

I had also read in a thread elsewhere that earlier Borgeson boxes did in fact leak after not so many miles, but that this issue was remedied once they stopped welding on the mounting hardware to the box itself (I think that's how I read it). So the bugs should be all worked out and I'm wishing you much success!

Did you also order the Bergman coupler that mates to the stock steering rack so you don't need to cut the rack and use that U-joint?

 

[Wietse]

I used the optional U-joint, rock solid feel and has a vibration damper rubber inside.
Drilling went easy with the provided drill bit.

I had also read in a thread elsewhere that earlier Borgeson boxes did in fact leak after not so many miles, but that this issue was remedied once they stopped welding on the mounting hardware to the box itself (I think that's how I read it).

Correct, the old ones had a welded bracket for the mounting, the boxes now days are a full cast so no chances of any distortion from the welding.

 

[Kern Dog]

I ordered the hybrid coupler for my setup. I wanted to preserve the steering column since I will probably end up putting it in my other Charger when I convert it to floor shift.
Regarding the other steering upgrade I mentioned:
This is a tilt column from a Cordoba.

These were made by Saginaw. They were the main supplier to General Motors for steering related components. Looking this one over, the GM lineage is evident.

There is a traditional Mopar steering coupler at the end and a GM style “Rag Joint” closer to the firewall.

These columns do offer a great range of adjustment.

Not like new cars with air bags where the wheel just moves up or down without actually tilting.
The wiring is a mess but I’ll figure that out.

I did this swap in 2008 in a Duster and everything worked...turn signals, brake lights, flashers but not the horn. I’ll improve on that this time.
The turn signal stalk has provisions for cruise control. I’ll find a plain stalk to replace that.

I had a tilt column in the Camaro and really liked it.

This will be a nice change too.
If we were heading into autumn, I’d just do both changes at once. Since it is car show season, I’ll likely just swap gearboxes. The column will take more time since I will have to disassemble it for cleaning and paint, shorten the shaft to fit the Charger and figure out the wiring.

 

[steve340]

A guy posted on FEBO he used the fast ratio stuff on a Borgeson and it was not right.
It made the steering ratio too high for the pump to handle.
Went back to the stock pitman arm etc and all good.

 

[Kern Dog]

The Fast Ratio arms supposedly alters a factory 15.7 ratio down to about a 12 to 1. If that same rate holds true, the Borgeson 14 to 1 would feel around 10 to 1. I agree... that would feel too tight.

 

[steve340]

Yes the ratio figures in your post tie in with the FEBO posters info.
He also posted that the new box was very nice after the stock parts swap.
Regarding your earlier post about the magazine articles. They are useful to me to inform about new products etc. But they are given most of the stuff they fit so an honest opinion on what it works like is not going to happen. I kinda read between the lines.
I am sure you have made a good choice.
Can't wait for the update.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I just ordered the Steering box from Bergman Auto Craft. Maybe by this time next week I'll have the box of goodies and will post my usual long winded reports!

1. 
   View attachment 1285701
   
   I am quite anxious to drive the car with a tight steering box.
   I used to have a '76 Camaro with some upgrades....
   
   View attachment 1285702
   
   View attachment 1285703
   
   That car had the bigger sway bars from a Trans Am, HD coil springs and an IROC 12.7 to 1 steering box. Say what you want about GM products but that car flat out handled great. The steering response was fantastic. I was really hoping to make the Charger equal to or better than the Camaro but I've always been disappointed by the Firm Feel steering box. This is no fault on the company. They surely did the best that they could with this design.
   For contrast.....
   My '67 Dart has the stock power steering which as you know, is almost effortless. It works perfectly for street use and the off road trails I drive it on. I wouldn't change anything about it. Turning on dirt can feel like turning on ice or mud so an easy effort steering gear is just fine.
   For the Charger, the higher effort magnified the feeling of the slop. This has been an eye opener for me. I thought the higher effort would be great. If there were no steering box options, I'd consider switching back to a milder Stage 2 box with stock Idler and Pitman arms to mask some of the slop.
   I have a 72 Duster, the aforementioned 67 Dart and another 70 Charger, all with power steering. The "Jigsaw" Charger has Fast Ratio arms. All are factory original steering boxes, none leak so they are staying in place. All feel pretty good on the road.
   

did Bergman provide a delivery lead time? Do they have everything in stock?

 

[Kern Dog]

He said he should be able to ship this afternoon or tomorrow.
He moved from New York to Virginia if I recall. Regardless, that is across the country. No biggie.
Driving my 2007 truck and the Wifes 2015 Challenger, there is never any apprehension going into turns. The truck is a 5000 lb brick and does understeer under duress but the steering response is superb. The Challenger feels taut as well. Knowing that this feel awaits me gives me the giggles.
The Camaro was a 14 second car at best but it cornered great. What made that car fun was the handling. I look forward to that feeling with Ginger.

 

[Wietse]

1st Test drive done today, man what a difference!!
Ended up driving 70mph and not even really noticing it.
Steering is a little firmer as before but it feels good, no center slop and has a direct feel on the steering wheel.
Fantastic upgrade i must say.