Stroke limits of a 440?

[Tonz]

Im in the midst of trying to plan out a 572 wedge stroker (4.5" bore and stroke) when i came accross this 4.75" stroke crank (part #: 44404750)

http://ohiocrank.com/crankshafts/

I'd be ok with going 565 with that 4.75 stroke and a 0.030" over 440 block cause itd save me a fortune on a keith black block. Can a stock-ish 440 block even handle that? What kind of grinding has to be done to fit that stroke, what oiling system should i invest in (something that isnt too obvious would be nice cause I'm trying to retain an as stock as possible look) and is it at all reliable? This is going to be a pump gas street engine that i want to last for years and probably wont ever see the 7,600rpm spins that these engines are known for, and im aiming for 9-10:1 compression ratio. Not being built to roar down the quarter, more be unique at the meets and be able to say "hey i built this".. I'll play around with combinations of con rod lengths and combustion chamber cc's before i start buying but is there specific types of connecting rods i should focus on? Like I-beam vs H-beam?

 

[RemCharger]

Yes a 4.75 stroke will go in a 440 block with some grinding.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Smaller base circle cam will help, but hitting the cam is the limit to your stroke. There is a reason the megablocks have the cam higher in the block.

 

[kramer]

On your oiling system I have read that when you go past 4.375 stroke your pretty much commited to an external oiling system so you will have some external oil lines routed outside of the oilpan so it get tougher to maintain a stock look and most likely a little more maintenance.

 

[forphorty]

I don't know, but I suspect a stock block 440 with a 4.75 stroke would have a short life.

 

[Tonz]

I don't know, but I suspect a stock block 440 with a 4.75 stroke would have a short life.

Yeah starting to think that a 600+ft/lbs 505 might be the balance i want between wickid gas guzzling cubes and "hey maybe i dont want to spend a $100 in gas to make it down the road"

 

[4406bbl]

Agree, short life that big. I would look into some of the 470-505 trick flow head builds.

 

[451Mopar]

I don't think you will save money putting the 4.75" crank in a stock 440 block.
If you want a 572 engine start with the large bore aftermarket blocks, or buy an assembled one.

The 4.25" stroke kits are pretty simple and common install, usually only needed to slightly clearance the edge of the oil tube boss. The internal oil pickup/oiling can be used.
Larger stroke cranks can be fitted, with external oiling, but how you support the extra displacement will matter.
Adding billet main caps and a girdle to the stock 440 can easy cost over $1,000.
I would start by picking a cylinder head you want to use. And work from there.

 

[66Satellite47]

IMHO, for street car a 4.15 or 4.25 stroke stock 440 block will give you need. You'd find traction hard to achieve with a 500+ motor. The 4.15 or 4.25 seem too be fairly simple combination these days. A fairly stock oil system is pretty straight forward with those combinations. My 500" motor in my 3750# Satellite with 10" converter & 4.10 gears, 325 BFG Street Drags would spin the tires easily for 50-60 feet and needed to be steered. That was a small cam 500 HP motor. My 512" has 200 more HP.

Edit: The 2.2 7.1 aftermarket rods make the 505-512" no problem for clearance.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

My suggestion... choose a rotating assembly with a 2.2 big block chevy rods w .990 pin, and you will save yourself a bunch of grinding. Pick your crank and pistons and rods obviously at once. 4 1/2 stroke w the 2.2 pin is the biggest crank I would consider. We just did a 4.5 crank and kept the internal oiling in a b engine. The rods make a big difference in terms of what clears and what hits. Stock LY rods are about the worst.

 

[Tonz]

My suggestion... choose a rotating assembly with a 2.2 big block chevy rods w .990 pin, and you will save yourself a bunch of grinding. Pick your crank and pistons and rods obviously at once. 4 1/2 stroke w the 2.2 pin is the biggest crank I would consider. We just did a 4.5 crank and kept the internal oiling in a b engine. The rods make a big difference in terms of what clears and what hits. Stock LY rods are about the worst.

Now THAT is music to my ears, i was ready to call it a day with 4.375" stroke but if i can fit a 4.5" ill be over the moon, so 2.2" chevy rods is a must, did you do anything to the oiling system? Is there anything specific i should look out for or a certain part i should include?

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Now THAT is music to my ears, i was ready to call it a day with 4.375" stroke but if i can fit a 4.5" ill be over the moon, so 2.2" chevy rods is a must, did you do anything to the oiling system? Is there anything specific i should look out for or a certain part i should include?

We used scat h beams. The 2.2pin is WAY easier. Our 4.5 stroke 542 is in a early 400 block. Its going to be a little different then your 440. 440 source sells the 4 1/2 stroker kits for a rb or you can piece mill together. We had room for a 1/2" oil pickup on the early 400. If you have do external oil on the 440 its really not a big deal. We have a 4.25 in a 440 with stock rods and stock journals, out of a hemi top fuel car. We were able to use the stock 3/8 pickup w some tweeking but no way would a 1/2 fit in that. The factory rods really interfered with the block and it was hard to get it too clear. Now if we wouldve had 2.2 pins and the scat rods?..maybe? We didn't have many options when we put that together 25 years ago.
You will have to do some clearancing w a 4.5 or 4.375....the 4.125 and 4.25 are nearly drop in. There is reason they are popular.

 

[Tonz]

We used scat h beams. The 2.2pin is WAY easier. Our 4.5 stroke 542 is in a early 400 block. Its going to be a little different then your 440. 440 source sells the 4 1/2 stroker kits for a rb or you can piece mill together. We had room for a 1/2" oil pickup on the early 400. If you have do external oil on the 440 its really not a big deal. We have a 4.25 in a 440 with stock rods and stock journals, out of a hemi top fuel car. We were able to use the stock 3/8 pickup w some tweeking but no way would a 1/2 fit in that. The factory rods really interfered with the block and it was hard to get it too clear. Now if we wouldve had 2.2 pins and the scat rods?..maybe? We didn't have many options when we put that together 25 years ago.
You will have to do some clearancing w a 4.5 or 4.375....the 4.125 and 4.25 are nearly drop in. There is reason they are popular.

Yeah i think that as much as id love to go all out i think i should maybe try to stear clear of an external oiling system just so that if god forbid i get into an accident, my insurance company cant wash their hands of the situation because its not stock. Kramer said that it seems the threshold is 4.375" so if i combined that with a 7" deep milodon oil pan and a 440 source stroker pickup and windage tray, could i possibly be ready to go? (Shy of block machining)

Oil parts i talked about:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-30930/make/dodge

http://store.440source.com/Stroker-Oil-Pickup-Tube-3_8-thread/productinfo/127-1017/

http://store.440source.com/Windage-Tray-Stroker-New/productinfo/127-1002/

 

[451Mopar]

That 440 source windage tray is pretty deep. I think it will fit inside the milodon oil pan? it is too deep for a stock or street hemi oil pan.
I don't know of the pickup tube fitment. I modified my engines for the 1/2" oil pickup, and had to make or modify the oil pickups because of the oil pan / windage tray / girdle combinations.
A girdle will space the windage tray and oil pan farther from the crank, so a shallower windage tray can clear with a girdle.

 

[Tonz]

That 440 source windage tray is pretty deep. I think it will fit inside the milodon oil pan? it is too deep for a stock or street hemi oil pan.
I don't know of the pickup tube fitment. I modified my engines for the 1/2" oil pickup, and had to make or modify the oil pickups because of the oil pan / windage tray / girdle combinations.
A girdle will space the windage tray and oil pan farther from the crank, so a shallower windage tray can clear with a girdle.

Good to know, and yeah ive had a couple people tell me i should just go with milodon for all 3 instead of mix matching so that i know it will fit together even if it's a lil more pricey

 

[6PKRTSE]

I have a 4.250 crank with 7.100 rods in my 528" Hemi. I am also running a 10 quart flat bottom top fuel/funny car pan. It doesn't hang any lower then my 2" deeper trans pan.

 

[DeGamba]

We used scat h beams. The 2.2pin is WAY easier. Our 4.5 stroke 542 is in a early 400 block. Its going to be a little different then your 440. 440 source sells the 4 1/2 stroker kits for a rb or you can piece mill together. We had room for a 1/2" oil pickup on the early 400. If you have do external oil on the 440 its really not a big deal. We have a 4.25 in a 440 with stock rods and stock journals, out of a hemi top fuel car. We were able to use the stock 3/8 pickup w some tweeking but no way would a 1/2 fit in that. The factory rods really interfered with the block and it was hard to get it too clear. Now if we wouldve had 2.2 pins and the scat rods?..maybe? We didn't have many options when we put that together 25 years ago.
You will have to do some clearancing w a 4.5 or 4.375....the 4.125 and 4.25 are nearly drop in. There

 

[DeGamba]

Hey. I am building a 400/512. But after reading your post i think i wanna try that 542 with the 4.5 stroke crank. Can you elaborate on the block clearancing required and recommended rod type. I think you recommended Scat H rods.

 

[DeGamba]

We used scat h beams. The 2.2pin is WAY easier. Our 4.5 stroke 542 is in a early 400 block. Its going to be a little different then your 440. 440 source sells the 4 1/2 stroker kits for a rb or you can piece mill together. We had room for a 1/2" oil pickup on the early 400. If you have do external oil on the 440 its really not a big deal. We have a 4.25 in a 440 with stock rods and stock journals, out of a hemi top fuel car. We were able to use the stock 3/8 pickup w some tweeking but no way would a 1/2 fit in that. The factory rods really interfered with the block and it was hard to get it too clear. Now if we wouldve had 2.2 pins and the scat rods?..maybe? We didn't have many options when we put that together 25 years ago.
You will have to do some clearancing w a 4.5 or 4.375....the 4.125 and 4.25 are nearly drop in. There is reason they are popular.

Can you elaborate on the clearancing neededfor the 4.5 crank? I am building a 400/512. After reading your post I wanna go even larger. 1976 400 block; 40 over.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Can you elaborate on the clearancing neededfor the 4.5 crank? I am building a 400/512. After reading your post I wanna go even larger. 1976 400 block; 40 over.

The 4.5" is a lot to undertake in a '76 block.
We are using a early 72 230 block as it has more clearance and has thicker mains. I dont believe all 230s are the same and 76 would be different yet for clearancing. Ours had enough room for the larger rb counterbalances to fit with only the crank itself barely hitting in 3 places at the flat bottom area of the waterjacket. ALL the rods require a notch at the bottom of the bore and the biggest interference is the oil pickup and pickup tube itself...it is why most do a external pickup. We made 1/2"internal tube fit after a considerable effort.
A '76 block "should" have a rib that makes contact with a rb counterbalance, its easiest to get it 2 clear by keeping with a b style crank counterbalance.
Their is no stroker "kit" available to put the 4.5" into a B. You have assemble the pieces. We are using a bryant billet crank that we turned the rods down to BBC 2.2" and mains turned down to B, but RB counterbalances. H beam scat rods, icon pistons and thick stackable cometic gaskets to lower the compression.
The 4.25 is a much easier combo and runs really hard. They also make a 4.375" which you may want to consider. Your welcome to send a pm if you want more details. Picture is our 542 b with internal pickup, when we were assembling it. Doing a 542 is not for everyone, it's all custom.