Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

[HAHNAGON]

Did Borgeson or BAC ever say anything about the use of fast ratio pitman or idler arms? Are they compatible with the borgeson setup? Are they not recommended or cause any issues? I installed a new borgeson gear box, hoses and coupler with a new saginaw pump. I also installed new pst tie rods, solid sleeves and fast ratio pitman and idler arms. I have some mild issues. I used mopar +4 ps fluid, NOT ATF+4 by the way. My steering still feels overboosted. Steering wheel moves very easy and has a very tiny bit of slop but not as bad as a factory ps gear box, but it's not what I expected. It also is glitchy like it doesn't have enough boost or air in the system??? I don't know. Its just not what I expected. I removed all zerk fittings and replaced the fast ratio idler arm with a standard idler arm because of clearance issues. I left the f.r. pitman on and nothing changed.
Any advice or noticeable issues with my combination. I have no problem swapping the fast ratio arms out for standard arms if that will solve my concerns.
I triple checked torque spec on everything, bleed the system twice, checked level when warm and cold, etc.

 

[JR_Charger]

Hmmm...maybe there is some slight angle there, huh?

View attachment 1289266

It looks like the coupler is tilted a little.


Maybe about the same as this one?

View attachment 1289268

Was your alignment as bad as mine?

 

[Kern Dog]

Did Borgeson or BAC ever say anything about the use of fast ratio pitman or idler arms? Are they compatible with the borgeson setup? Are they not recommended or cause any issues?

You could use the Fast Ratio steering arms but I'd suggest against it.
They convert a stock 15.7 to 1 box to approximately 12 to 1. They'd have the same effect on the 14 to 1 Borgeson, taking it close to 10 to 1. That seems way too fast for street driving. Maybe for an off road rally car but for the street, I'd think that 10 to 1 would be too twitchy and over sensitive.

Was your alignment as bad as mine?

View attachment 1531957

The angle I had in my Charger is less than what I saw in the '68 Plymouth that I just finished. The Plymouth drives fine, as does the Charger. I had to clock the steering wheel in the Plymouth to get it centered.

 

[Darter6]

When my buddy did his early B he had some issues that he talked to Bergman about.
I believe Bergman supplied some angle shims to correct the misalignment mounting the box to frame.
As we all know Ma Mopar wasn't best on tolerances. Quite relaxed.
Tom Hoover once said " We were very accurate,+ or - a inch or so.."

 

[HAHNAGON]

Was your alignment as bad as mine?

View attachment 1531957

No. Believe it or not, that is as straight as an arrow. I was worried about that. Especially since I bought the coupler that required me to cut the shaft.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Was your alignment as bad as mine?

View attachment 1531957

JR, That is exactly where mine was sitting until I added the 1/4" shim as shown in this pic. The shim brought it in line.

 

[HAHNAGON]

JR, That is exactly where mine was sitting until I added the 1/4" shim as shown in this pic. The shim brought it in line.

View attachment 1532116

Ok. Good to know. Looks like your new gen hemi fits well with it. I got a 392 for mine but haven't gotten the balls yet to tackle the installation. I'm sure I'll be asking a lot questions about that in the near future.

 

[JR_Charger]

When my buddy did his early B he had some issues that he talked to Bergman about.
I believe Bergman supplied some angle shims to correct the misalignment mounting the box to frame.
As we all know Ma Mopar wasn't best on tolerances. Quite relaxed.
Tom Hoover once said " We were very accurate,+ or - a inch or so.."

In this case it's QA1's fault, not Chryslers. Seems like QA1 could have fixed the problem when they designed their k member?

 

[JR_Charger]

JR, That is exactly where mine was sitting until I added the 1/4" shim as shown in this pic. The shim brought it in line.

View attachment 1532116

Is that a shim or a couple of fat washers?

I doubt you'll have any problems, but I'd prefer the steering box to be making 100% contact with the mount instead of just on a couple edges. But, it seems we can't have it all, even when we pay out the arse for it.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Is that a shim or a couple of fat washers?

I doubt you'll have any problems, but I'd prefer the steering box to be making 100% contact with the mount instead of just on a couple edges. But, it seems we can't have it all, even when we pay out the arse for it.

Actually, it is a 1/4" thick washer. Can't remember what from but possibly a lower control arm washer. I was thinking that Borgeson changed that mounting and beefed it up some. I know mine is an early version (2014) of the steering gear. The later ones have a gusset welded on that ear that mine does not have. I have about 8K miles on my car since the build. I have checked the tightness of that particular bolt a couple times but it has always stayed tight and in place. It was more important to me that things lined up properly.

 

[JR_Charger]

Having some trouble with the Bergman coupler. The track for the shoes isn't tall enough -

The shoes fit fine in the factory coupler -

Is there any solution other than contacting Bergman and trying to get a new coupler? I must have had this thing for a year or more now. They might not send me a new one. It's the weekend too, I won't be able to contact them for two more days. I wanted my steering done tonight.

 

[Kern Dog]

Can you take a file to the inside of the coupler to take off a few thousandths?

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Same thing here. Does the ones that comes with the kit fit better?
I didnt get the shoe-kit with my box, these are my original shoes.

 

[Kern Dog]

I used the new parts that came with the steering box kit. I did the same for the 68 Plymouth I just did. Everything fit together snugly with no slop.
Stuff happens though. Maybe the coupler is slightly tweaked and just needs some slight clearancing?

 

[JR_Charger]

I believe that is one of the new shoes. Bergman's shoes have their own problem - the hole is too small to fit on the factory pin. That's why I didn't use them.

I could try filing the coupler down, but I sure can't file it down evenly. It's going to have a slope to it, and you can't spell "slope" without "slop." Enough slop to notice? I paid for a high quality steering system and that's what I should get. Nothing about the aftermarket coupler should be worse than the 51 year old, 106,000 mile factory coupler.

 

[JR_Charger]

Same thing here. Does the ones that comes with the kit fit better?
I didnt get the shoe-kit with my box, these are my original shoes.

View attachment 1532419

No, the shoes with the kit don't fit at all. They don't fit in the coupler, and they don't fit on the factory pin.

Did your kit come with instructions? I don't believe mine did, but it's been some time since I opened the package and they could have been lost. Bergman doesn't have any on their website.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

No, the shoes with the kit don't fit at all. They don't fit in the coupler, and they don't fit on the factory pin.

Did your kit come with instructions? I don't believe mine did, but it's been some time since I opened the package and they could have been lost. Bergman doesn't have any on their website.

No instructions. I did read some instructions on the webpage though.

Isnt it easier to file down the shoes instead of inside the coupler?

 

[JR_Charger]

No instructions. I did read some instructions on the webpage though.

Isnt it easier to file down the shoes instead of inside the coupler?

Easier, yes. Probably what I'll end up doing. I was hesitant because I don't want to destroy the finish on the shoe, but the grease should protect the bare metal after filing.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Easier, yes. Probably what I'll end up doing. I was hesitant because I don't want to destroy the finish on the shoe, but the grease should protect the bare metal after filing.

I need to figure out some good garage-trick to file them down flat...
Putting them on a file like this and they will look like a banana.

 

[JR_Charger]

That's how I was going to do it. But I will contacting Bergman first. It's been so long since I purchased my coupler though, they may not feel like replacing anything.