The Chargeless Charger

[Nacho-RT74]

This would be the engine wiring diagram for 73 I made long time ago where the choke control source was included.

Althought I run the tach wire On diagram to the bulkhead and that’s wrong for 72/73, it actually runs through firewall. That cavity is used for the A/C compressor clutch when equiped. 71/74 got several wires turned around on bulkhead between harnesses and diagram is pretty old before get in hands more info. But it’s pretty much close to the reality.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

In the photo of your installed connectors you mention a 45 Amp rating. Did you use the 45 Amp PP45 connectors on the 12 gauge steering column wires? I see the manufacturer is stating 12 gauge wires should use the 30 Amp PP30 connectors. None of those steering column wires are 10 gauge (I measured them with my wire stripper tool). The smaller column wires are 16 gauge, so 15 amp PP15 size.

Negative, you will want to use the correct terminal for the wire size. The PP15/45 series connectors are rated up to 45amps. They can be interchanged with each other. Later factory replacement ignition switches use 10 ga wire on a couple circuits. A 30 amp terminal (12 ga) on the harness side and a 45 amp terminal (10 ga) on the switch side. A couple of the pictured connections are for the key-in switch and are the smaller 15 amp terminals.

Unlikely to see any where near 30-45 amps on any of those circuits, the point is the original Molex terminals were never designed to handle anything close to these ratings as evidenced by very common heat damage at the connection early on.

And, Yes, igntion1 (blue/white wire) in the engine harness at one field terminal will work fine for an aftermarket electric choke heater. You can also pick-up this same circuit up at the ballast resistor.

 

[MoparGuy68]

I’ve been researching all week, in the evenings, what I need to buy to fix all these wires and connectors. This has become complicated..

Trying to figure out what gauges all the wires are on this damn Steering Column molex connector. Based on the factory 1971 schematic and photos of my actual connectors, I have compiled this list. I don’t know if the schematic numbers (18, 12, 16, 14, 20) correspond with gauges or not.. Based on my measurement of the Blue W/white stripe on male connector the numbers on the schematic probably DOES NOT correspond with gauges..

Maybe by next Monday I’ll actually have all this straightened out and be able to start placing orders. The connectors and wires have been the most difficult thing to determine what I actually need to order. Maybe someone can help clarify what these gauges are? Or I'll have to start cutting them all off of the connectors, strip and measure with my wire stripper to determine what gauge they actually are.

Male Connector:

Yellow 18 ga
Black 12 ga
DarkBlueWhiteStripe 16 ga (measured as 12 ga so this does NOT match the schematic)
Brown 14 ga
Red 12 ga
Orange ?? no wire seen here on schematic
Black 20 ga
Black 20 ga


Female Connector:

Yellow 18 ga
Black 12 ga
DarkBlue 16 ga
Brown 14 ga
Red 12 ga
Orange 18 ga (Schematic says Violet wire, my car has an Orange here)
Red 18 ga
Red 18 ga

A Packard 56 crimping tool that will correctly crimp 12 gauge is another problem, I keep finding tools that only say they crimp 14 gauge and smaller connectors.

Regarding Packard 56 female connectors. I am only finding GM style female connectors online. The female connectors currently in my bulkhead disconnect do NOT look like the GM connectors, and they are copper, not silver (like the GM connectors I keep finding).

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I just can say all cars I have seen ( and all new ignition switches, OEM, NOS or new replacements ) get 12 gauge for all 5 main wires: yellow ( starter motor ) blue ( ign1 ) black ( ACC ) brown ( Ign2 ) Red ( Input power )

This is on Ign switch harness and also on underdash harness.

Then on engine bay, starter motor becomes 18 and Both ign ( 1 and 2 ) become 16 gauge.

the violet wire... ground? I know aftermarket replacements got this being a 18 gauge wire but i NEVER have seen this wire present on any A or B body up to 74. I have known some late 70s cars ( maybe even some mid 70s C bodies ) require this ground wire to trigger some stuff around, but definitely not on any B body up to 74 and never on any A body

the small red wires ( which becomes black into dash harness ) are the ign switch sensor to trigger the key in warning buzzer. This is a separate piece from the ignition switch harness so added into the plug

the orange wire is to feed the steering column shifter light. Is ALLWAYS present there on dash harness but just used on ign switch plug side when of course the car is column shifter. Floor shifter cars don’t get any wire there on column side of the plug so the wire in dash side will arrive to nowhere. But will be still there

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Trying to figure out what gauges all the wires are on this damn Steering Column molex connector. Based on the factory 1971 schematic and photos of my actual connectors, I have compiled this list. I don’t know if the schematic numbers (18, 12, 16, 14, 20) correspond with gauges or not.. Based on my measurement of the Blue W/white stripe on male connector the numbers on the schematic probably DOES NOT correspond with gauges..

The factory wiring diagram circuit identifying number DO indeed contain wire gauges as originally designed. i.e. Q2-12Bk is a 12 gauge black wire, J2-16DBL* is a dark blue 16 gauge with a tracer. Wouldn’t hurt to up size this run to a 12 gauge if it needs replacement.

 

[MoparGuy68]

More research on this. "Packard" appears to refer to Packard Electric, a division of General Motors. The female "Packard 56" connectors in my bulkhead appear to be brass and are different in appearance to the Packard 56 connectors I am finding, such as those found at American Autowire's website.

I've posted photos of an original female connector from my car, and a GM style connector I found on my Alternator field terminal female connector (on the engine wiring harness). GM is the silver connector. Original Chrysler is the brass connector.

The connector on my field terminal is identical to the GM connectors that American Autowire sell. I will have to call them to determine if their GM connectors can be used in a MOPAR bulkhead disconnect. They show a 1964 model Mopar on their website, but I see no female connectors that look like the female connectors currently in my bulkhead.. Don't know why Chrysler used a different female connector, but the same male connector as GM.. The GM female connector looks like it may be the better design of the two..

 

[MoparGuy68]

I called American Autowire. They told me they only deal with connectors for GM cars, and could not tell me whether their female connectors will work in a Mopar bulkhead disconnect. They told me to call M and H Electric (the company that makes the Year One Mopar harnesses). They said that there is only ONE Packard 56 connector that is used for 10 to 18 gauge wire (male and female).

M and H told me they "think" the connectors in the Mopar harnesses are Packard 58, NOT Packard 56.. The guy didn't know 100% whether it is Packard 58, but he thinks that's what they are. And of course they don't provide connectors only, just complete harnesses and you have to buy them from Year One. He told me to try Classic Industries or repairconnectordotcom for small sets of connectors only.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Any of them will work.

however on a quick search just found

https://www.repairconnector.com/uni...-female-terminal-connector-14-12-awg-25-pack/

 

[MoparGuy68]

I had a long phone call with tech support at M and H Electric. He looked up the schematics they use to actually manufacture the MOPAR wiring harnesses for Year One. He also looked up the part numbers for the connectors. They definitely are 58 series connectors. M and H get them on HUGE spooled rolls for mass production, so their source is no good for the average Mopar owner who is trying to fix his old car.

Sorry Nacho, but that link above shows "out of stock" for that item. I think I've found another supplier of the "factory correct" connectors. I'll post more details of what I found out about these harnesses later after I finish work. Was making all these phone calls during my lunch break. This is like being a detective..

 

[RJRENTON]

Consider talking with Bill and Rose Evans at: www.evanswiring.com or [email protected]. They may be helpful in sourcing the pieces and parts you need. Or call them at (814) 864-2622.
Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I have seen the brass ones in several places. That was just one of the first ones.

http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/_packard_terminals.asp

Mouser have them listed too ( The link comes from .es website since I'm in Spain but is the same from the.com website )

https://www.mouser.es/Aptiv/Connectors/Automotive-Connectors/58-Series/_/N-1ehb5?P=1z0wv2iZ1z0zlez

althought waiting to get them restocked by january

anyway, the other ones works too. My own car got several of those from factory on same kind conectors

I had to replace some with these because they were the ones available at local hardware stores ( Venezuela ):

and they are these:

https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Electrical-Terminal-14-12-Gauge-1-4-Female-p/a15504.htm

and also found some on my car ( factory ) like these on couple of spots:

and also like these:

 

[Nacho-RT74]

some interesting stuff .... but in UK

https://www.automotiveconnectors.com/lucas-rists-63mm-female-uninsulated-contact-10-20mm.html

https://www.automotiveconnectors.com/te-amp-fastinfaston-63mm-female-blade-terminal-14-18awg.html

https://www.automotiveconnectors.com/te-connectivity-faston-femalecontact.html

 

[Nacho-RT74]

and:

https://www.elecdirect.com/crimp-wi...096566-ford-c5ab-14474b-gm-2965470-bulk-100pk

https://www.elecdirect.com/crimp-wi...sler-2096566-ford-c5ab-14474b-gm-2965470-10pk

14-16 gauge:
https://www.elecdirect.com/crimp-wi...sler-2096567-ford-c1sf-14474a-gm-2965580-10pk

https://www.elecdirect.com/crimp-wi...096567-ford-c1sf-14474a-gm-2965580-bulk-100pk

 

[MoparGuy68]

Consider talking with Bill and Rose Evans at: www.evanswiring.com or [email protected]. They may be helpful in sourcing the pieces and parts you need. Or call them at (814) 864-2622.
Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

I called Year One first and found out they are waiting on M & H for 71 B-Body Engine harnesses. They are not expecting any of these harnesses to show up at Year One until 2 to 4 weeks from now. Car has already been sitting motionless, again, this time for 7 weeks, so screw that..

I called Evans Wiring and talked to Bill. He is sending me the following:

71 B-Body 383 Magnum harness, for electronic ignition conversion (with a custom electric choke wire installed!). How wonderful!

Bulkhead Disconnect

58 series female connectors 10 each of 16-18 and 10-14 gauge size.

1 ft of Blk 12 gauge wire

1 ft of Blue w/white stripe 16 gauge wire

Some heat shrink tubing

Almost managed to do one stop shopping! He doesn't sell crimper tools..

I told my Super Bee this wondeful news, and it could hardly contain all its fluids, it got so excited!!

 

[MoparGuy68]

Bad news is the crimper tools.. Bill told me what tools he uses. The tools cost almost twice as much as my order that I placed today for the stuff above which was about $225.

He gave me these part numbers: 12040071 & 8913440. He said he got them from WAYTEK. Those part number bring up nothing at WAYTEK.. But I found them elsewhere:

$324 Crimper for 14 to 20 gauge
https://crimpsupply.com/56-series-pack-con-crimping-tool-8913440.html

$96 Crimper for 10 to 12 gauge
https://www.lectriclimited.com/terminal-crimping-tool-106536

He Crimps connectors everyday.. There has got to be something less expensive I can use to crimp a couple of connectors.. He did say he DOES NOT use the 14 to 20 gauge tool to crimp 10 to 12 gauge wire/connectors. He uses both tools for their appropriate gauges.

So I only have part of the puzzle solved. I need to find crimpers that cost less. That is crazy to spend that much to crimp 3 or 4 connectors, even to crimp 20 connectors!

Then I need the Power Pole stuff.. Never spent so much money and time on a car I can't drive. This is a first.

 

[Kern Dog]

I have bought 2 harnesses from Evans. Great stuff, great quality.

 

[MoparGuy68]

I have bought 2 harnesses from Evans. Great stuff, great quality.

I still have no harness to put in my car. I asked for a 1971 B-Body Charger 383 Magnum engine harness. Bill sent me what appeared to be a 1970 B-Body Big Block engine harness (with a black plastic bulkhead connector end, instead of white plastic). These two harnesses are very different, including different placement and color coding of wires. The 1970 harness will not work on a 1971 car. So I had to contact him and ship it back to him. He sent it to me UPS Ground on a Tues 22nd and I received it 3 days later on Friday 25th. I sent it back, UPS Ground, this past Monday 28th, and he will not get it till this coming Monday 5th (5 days, takes 2 days longer going back..). Maybe I'll have the correct harness by Fri the 9th.

In contrast the bulkhead disconnect that showed up was the correct 1971 piece.

Regarding the harness quality, the 8 male Packard 58 connectors that plug into the bulkhead disconnect were not aligned with each other. One was cocked at an odd angle and another was quite a bit shorter in protrusion than the other 7 connectors. I asked for a 1 foot piece of 16 gauge blue with white tracer wire, that was not included when the box showed up.

Unlike Year One, Classic Industries or any other vendor I've ordered product from, there was no typed emailed order sent to me showing what I had ordered for confirmation. All I could do was go over the list of items in summary, on the phone, for confirmation when I called to place the order, which I did. There was also no order paperwork in the box, with the shipped items. Only a credit card receipt showing the total charge.

I would not place an order with Evans again, without getting a viewable confirmation of what I have ordered, showing the descriptions of each item. And I do hope the 8 male connectors are better aligned when the correct 1971 harness arrives.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Ordered the Power Pole stuff from Powerwerx. This included their TRIcrimp tool. So far, I have not figured out how to open the jaws of the tool.. I cannot get the tool to open, the jaws are stuck closed. Instructions that came with the tool, don't say how to get them open either.. Anyone know how to open the jaws on this tool?

Furthermore, the 45 labeled teeth on the jaw are malformed. This looks like a defect, and I'll have to return the tool for replacement.. Compare with the teeth on their website photo. Mine are lopsided on the 45 position.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Got a Packard 56/58 Crimper used on Ebay for $74 shipped. This same tool sells new for $142. In contrast to the new TRIcrimp tool above, the jaws on this used tool look good..

Mine has a broken catch, so the only way to keep the jaws closed for storage is to put a band around the handles, which the seller included. I decided I could accept this to save $70+, instead of buying a new tool. I haven't added all this wiring fix stuff up yet, but it will be expensive to fix two fried wires, melted bulkhead disconnect and a bad molex connector..

The specs for this Packard Crimper state it can crimp both core and insulation wings for 14 to 20 gauge connectors. For 10 to 12 gauge connectors only core wings, not insulation.

This is where the tool can be obtained new: https://crimpsupply.com/tools/packard-tools/metri-pack-56-series-pack-con-crimping-tool-6285847.html

 

[MoparGuy68]

Got two types of 58 series female connectors from Evans Wiring. One was supposed to handle 12 gauge, the other 16 gauge. One bag had brass connectors marked "P.E.D 6". Second back had silver connectors marked with only "AMP".

I think the brass ones marked "P.E.D 6" may work for 12 gauge, but the insulation wings look too small to crimp the insulation on a 12 gauge wire. The ones marked "AMP" have insulation wings that look too big for 16 gauge.

I found TWO loose brass female connectors in the parts bin that came with my car.. These are marked "S X 16". They seem to fit 16 gauge wire better than what Evans supplied.

If you're not experienced with all these connectors, it's difficult to tell whether a connector is sized properly for a give wire gauge. All I can do is compare with connectors that have already been crimped onto the cars old wires a long time ago..