The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

Thank you.
Backing plate bolts. (8) pieces. Shaved almost a pound between the both sides. Could not find the castle nuts in Titanium, so I had to go with stockers. The cotter/stop pins are Ti though.
Had fun showing some sneakier prototype items to some of the F.A.S.T guys this weekend at Carlisle. Heads were rolling the HHHHMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm's. LOL.

View attachment 1495793

Titanium spindle nuts. Just checked the records and the factory version was 0.85 of an ounce and the Titanium piece was 0.55

 

[bearman]

Titanium spindle nuts shaved 3 ounces.

View attachment 1495843

Well I guess I need to find a fastener place that handles all this good stuff. Thanks for more updates.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Well I guess I need to find a fastener place that handles all this good stuff. Thanks for more updates.

Years ago I dealt with Trick Titanium at their Troy, Michigan shop. In the late 60's and 70's, they were closely working with Ted Spehar and the Motown Missile program amongst other Mopar racing camps.
Mettec out west is knowledgable on their metal Rockwell hardness and capabilities.
McMasters has standard home grade titanium and aluminum in their stocks, but caution should be taken as to their strength and capabilities. They also have higher grades which require education in metals before using.

 

[Badvert65]

OK, I received the mini starter I ordered from 440 Source, the one advertised as 7 pounds. Right out of the box, it measures 7 pounds 17.5 ounces – well, 8 pounds 1.5 ounces. In all fairness, I sent them an email asking for clarification on this. I will likely be told it is a typo in their ad, but there you have it. If you want a 7 pound starter-this ain’t it. I will let you guys know if I get a response.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

OK, I received the mini starter I ordered from 440 Source, the one advertised as 7 pounds. Right out of the box, it measures 7 pounds 17.5 ounces – well, 8 pounds 1.5 ounces. In all fairness, I sent them an email asking for clarification on this. I will likely be told it is a typo in their ad, but there you have it. If you want a 7 pound starter-this ain’t it. I will let you guys know if I get a response.

Bait and switcharoo.
It's like the 99 Cents store sounds cheap based on the visuals of that number when in reality it is $1.00
Thanks for the heads up.

Does this 7 Lbs starter going on 8 Lbs have heat shields attached? It doesn't look like it from what the photo shows.
I made up with Titanium mounting bolts and nuts on mine. Sorry. don't have pictures.

Perhaps Titanium nuts on the electrode posts and bolts on the housing will bring it down a little. LOL.
In all seriousness, 7 Lbs is a low number to boast coming from a company without it being exactly that. Just be real people. Makes me question all of their other items.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Bait and switcharoo.
It's like the 99 Cents store sounds cheap based on the visuals of that number when in reality it is $1.00
Thanks for the heads up.

Does this 7 Lbs starter going on 8 Lbs have heat shields attached? It doesn't look like it from what the photo shows.
I made up with Titanium mounting bolts and nuts on mine. Sorry. don't have pictures.

Perhaps Titanium nuts on the electrode posts and bolts on the housing will bring it down a little. LOL.
In all seriousness, 7 Lbs is a low number to boast coming from a company without it being exactly that. Just be real people. Makes me question all of their other items.

View attachment 1496360

While the subject is still hovering around region #1, here's a hold down in aluminum by the same company that is distributing the supposed 7 pound starters. I made mine way back in the 90's and it's a feather still holding the hold. Titanium bolt.

 

[Mopar John]

OK, I received the mini starter I ordered from 440 Source, the one advertised as 7 pounds. Right out of the box, it measures 7 pounds 17.5 ounces – well, 8 pounds 1.5 ounces. In all fairness, I sent them an email asking for clarification on this. I will likely be told it is a typo in their ad, but there you have it. If you want a 7 pound starter-this ain’t it. I will let you guys know if I get a response.

Badvert65,
Thanks for the weight info on your new starter!
I hope the purchase was not based on the weight being 7lbs!
It is 2.5oz lighter than my current starter and spare!
Thanks! MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Badvert65,
Thanks for the weight info on your new starter!
I hope the purchase was not based on the weight being 7lbs!
It is 2.5oz lighter than my current starter and spare!
Thanks! MJ

They know that Drag racers go by the tight numbers. 1 pound less is just that, one pound less. It should be what it is advertised to be.
In the scope of all things considered, I guess ounces and or pounds can be shaved elsewhere.

 

[Mopar John]

So back to my GTX weight loss story!
As I mentioned the GTX was over 3600lbs new in street trim.
I knew all along making the car lighter would make it faster!
But back in 1998 when I started racing at "ROUTE 66 RACEWAY" in Joliet, Illinois things ramped up.
They had a very good scale at this new track.
The first time I weighed the GTX there it weighed 3385lbs!
So that is when I started my weight loss log and making notes.
I would jot down the item with the old weight and new weight.
Then I would show the difference and new accumulated total.
So my attached pictures show those log sheets.
The first item is that I went with a higher stall convertor and it dropped 5 lbs of rotating weight.
The old convertor weighed 31lbs and the new convertor weighed only 26lbs!
Lee has been talking about zones on his plan but I think rotating weight trumps any zone?
MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

So back to my GTX weight loss story!
As I mentioned the GTX was over 3600lbs new in street trim.
I knew all along making the car lighter would make it faster!
But back in 1998 when I started racing at "ROUTE 66 RACEWAY" in Joliet, Illinois things ramped up.
They had a very good scale at this new track.
The first time I weighed the GTX there it weighed 3385lbs!
So that is when I started my weight loss log and making notes.
I would jot down the item with the old weight and new weight.
Then I would show the difference and new accumulated total.
So my attached pictures show those log sheets.
The first item is that I went with a higher stall convertor and it dropped 5 lbs of rotating weight.
The old convertor weighed 31lbs and the new convertor weighed only 26lbs!
Lee has been talking about zones on his plan but I think rotating weight trumps any zone?
MJ

View attachment 1496396

View attachment 1496397

Yes, rotating weight rules over all.
I still suspect that the three regions static weight when removed or repositioned, will boost the lighter rotating weights potential.

From over 3600 Lbs to 3385 Lbs was a feat all in itself for that kind of car. Some people would be happy stopping right there and then. The fact that it is now at 2895 is a moving marvel.

I love the list. We think alike from across many towns.
Below is just one page of about 30 that make up the cars lightweight manifesto. Some items have been further worked over the years to shave more lard. Some pages are maddening in showing 1 ounce shaved here, half an ounce removal there. Grams deleted elsewhere. LOL.
Some items were/are wishful thoughts that could never materialize, but somehow some came through and true.
Lots of drawings created as part of the portfolio, but I will only release a few as the region comes into play.

 

[Mopar John]

Lee,
Thanks for sharing some of your detailed information!
So recently we have been discussing starters and that is the second entry on my list.
I went from the big traditional starter to a mini starter and shaved 8lbs on that item.
I would keep a running total of the weight loss.
Occasionally I would scale the GTX and verify my numbers.
MJ

 

[RemCharger]

Yes, rotating weight rules over all.
I still suspect that the three regions static weight when removed or repositioned, will boost the lighter rotating weights potential.

From over 3600 Lbs to 3385 Lbs was a feat all in itself for that kind of car. Some people would be happy stopping right there and then. The fact that it is now at 2895 is a moving marvel.

I love the list. We think alike from across many towns.
Below is just one page of about 30 that make up the cars lightweight manifesto. Some items have been further worked over the years to shave more lard. Some pages are maddening in showing 1 ounce shaved here, half an ounce removal there. Grams deleted elsewhere. LOL.
Some items were/are wishful thoughts that could never materialize, but somehow some came through and true.
Lots of drawings created as part of the portfolio, but I will only release a few as the region comes into play.

View attachment 1496470

Holy crap.

 

[Cranky]

While not 30 pounds, my first lead-acid to L-ion battery swaps were our 2 V-Rod motorcycles. The battery sits right behind the top of the steering gooseneck, and being able to reduce weight there really makes for a better handling, easier to transition ride.
As far as my 70 Roadrunner, weight reduction comes as it will. The BMP aluminum block is a significant weight loss, in an important location. The QA1 tubular K-Member is a little lighter than the factory one, as are some of the other components, but that was happening regardless. Weight gets added here, like the AC system, but then subtracted there, a big example is the bench seat replaced by 2 Scat Procar bucket seats. Another example of "was going to happen anyway" but definitely a weight loss.
So rather than look for places to lose weight on the car, I take it where I can get it, but I don't fret about the weight of stuff I want to add.
I know my situation is totally different from those seeking 10ths of a second and ounces, not just pounds, but I'm pretty sure my car is going to be a couple hundred pounds lighter than it was when it left the factory.

Used to have a 71 SL350 and could tell it handled better with a nearly empty gas tank....same thing with my 81 CB750 Custom. Even a 1/2 tank made a difference with that pig.

 

[Cranky]

There wasn't any one particular part of this for me to highlight, but I'm really glad you covered these things. My opinion may be more biased towards "appearance" and utility which is subjective vs "overall weight, weight distribution, and wheelbase" which is objective. I definitely prefer the Roadrunner, but before
I took a serious "perspective buyer's" drive of a ?71 Demon/Duster 440 auto. It was loud in a beautifully healthy manner and it certainly had the performance to back up the menacing vibes...POWER-TO-WEIGHT in spades!! I mean WOW! a big block A-body defines that combo!
It looked great, paint was that "real" RED (no orange in it) with black stripes...BAD ASSED
BUT
The factory shoulder strap grabbed me right across my neck, literally! So unless Chrysler had some diabolical secret scheme in league with "The WEF and The Illuminati" to reduce the population of big, tall men, that is just how my 6'3" 270# frame fits in an A-body and that made me look at or see easily all the other ways A-bodies are too small for me as a CRUISER that I race occasionally. If I wanted a track car, I may not look at anything but an A-body!
That takes me to my B-body, and a Roadrunner at that. Still a reasonable size car, not something that you need a crew to dock in a parking spot, and I think the 68-70 Roadrunner is lighter than the 71-74 and my 71 Charger R/T certainly felt way heavier. The interior space is comfortable, especially since I switched out the vinyl covered behemoth of a Bench Seat for a couple of SCAT ProCar bucket seats in Yellow and Black at that, and added a matching center console. TOTALLY changed the vibe inside and made it "racy-er" and still weighing less than if I hadn't done anything.
I may be wrong about this but I believe the longer wheelbase of a B-body makes it harder to get sideways under power, and easier to recover from a slip?
Last note on this and I'll probably just read the rest of this thread in peaceful silent observance:

I can assure you that even if my bold colored metal "Voice of the Roadrunner" horn weighed a ridiculous TEN POUNDS there are no fractions of a second or +MPH that I would trade it for, because it is great to give a "Beep-Beep" to the people who line up, gather, and park all along Beach Highway for Cruisin the Coast and specifically ask to hear it, and that saves me some tread on my drag radials because "smokin' em UP!" is the other popular request!
Great thread, I'm out, and apologies for hijacking.

I'm only 5' 9" and have really never been in very many A body cars where I was comfortable and they HAD to be a 2dr at least and if it had buckets, that was even better. Just can't imagine someone of your stature in one of any configuration unless it was a total custom. Bought a turn key 9 second 71 Duster years ago where the main hoop was too far forward and even though a guy that was 6' 7" could get in it, his knees were bent at 45* and mine weren't much better. Didn't find out how uncomfortable I was in it until my first pass. Should have made a pass in it before buying it! The guy that bought it from me said he raised the seat up some and made things better but don't remember how tall he was. Yeah, I'm hijacking too but will be making a reply soon....as soon as I read 10 more pages lol

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I'm only 5' 9" and have really never been in very many A body cars where I was comfortable and they HAD to be a 2dr at least and if it had buckets, that was even better. Just can't imagine someone of your stature in one of any configuration unless it was a total custom. Bought a turn key 9 second 71 Duster years ago where the main hoop was too far forward and even though a guy that was 6' 7" could get in it, his knees were bent at 45* and mine weren't much better. Didn't find out how uncomfortable I was in it until my first pass. Should have made a pass in it before buying it! The guy that bought it from me said he raised the seat up some and made things better but don't remember how tall he was. Yeah, I'm hijacking too but will be making a reply soon....as soon as I read 10 more pages lol

By coincidence, I bumped into a true lightweight front end truck.

 

[Mopar John]

So the next thing on my list is the speedometer gear at 1lb reduction.
This is for the gear, gear housing, clamp and hold down bolt.
You don't need a spedometer when it's a dedicated drag car!
I simply found a lightweight plug and blocked off the opening!
MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

So the next thing on my list is the speedometer gear at 1lb reduction.
This is for the gear, gear housing, clamp and hold down bolt.
You don't need a spedometer when it's a dedicated drag car!
I simply found a lightweight plug and blocked off the opening!
MJ

View attachment 1496702

This is almost like the A-864 Hemi transmissions with the parking gear removed. The transmission tail housing (rare) had no provisions for the parking gear mechanism.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

This is almost like the A-864 Hemi transmissions with the parking gear removed. The transmission tail housing (rare) had no provisions for the parking gear mechanism.

Before going any further, keep in mind that the emphasis with these two parts here was to mimic or surpass what the factory had done with the 1964 A-864 Hemi cars and the (4) 2% cars of that same year. When these parts weren't available either out of rarity or exclusiveness, upping the ante was in full view.

I found some old images of the original steel top grill cross brace that was hogged out years ago. In stock form, it weighed in at 3-3/4 Lbs. Hogged out with the oval holes it only lost 3/4 of a pound. It was all good with me at the time but when the decision to go aluminum came along a short while later, it was dropped down to 1-1/2 Lbs. This was all hammered and break formed just outside an old Submarine hull building facility at the original Area 51, The Brooklyn Navy Yard.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Before going any further, keep in mind that the emphasis with these two parts here was to mimic or surpass what the factory had done with the 1964 A-864 Hemi cars and the (4) 2% cars of that same year. When these parts weren't available either out of rarity or exclusiveness, upping the ante was in full view.

I found some images of the original steel top grill cross brace that was hogged out years ago. In stock form, it weighed in at 3-3/4 Lbs. Hogged out with the oval holes it only lost 3/4 of a pound. It was all good with me at the time but when the decision to go aluminum came along a short while later, it was dropped down to 1-1/2 Lbs.

View attachment 1496812

The top grill cross brace installed in place. The vertical latch support braces were also of the light alloy. Being that four hood pins were to come in service, the lock latch got shelved.

 

[Mopar John]

So the next thing on my list is the speedometer gear at 1lb reduction.
This is for the gear, gear housing, clamp and hold down bolt.
You don't need a spedometer when it's a dedicated drag car!
I simply found a lightweight plug and blocked off the opening!
MJ

View attachment 1496702

So here is a picture of the transmission tailshaft with the plug installed.
I also forgot to mention that the removal of the spedometer gear reduced some rotating weight!
Just a little bit less to get turning when I drop the hammer on the starting line!
MJ