The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

off the wall question
building 540 hemi any suggestions on old school mopar starter possible year can get rebuilt local that will turn motor 9.8 compression
thanks

Lightweight Denso style starter will turn that pup over easily, but if you're bent on old school stock type starters, I'm sure that all year starters can do the job, just be ready to carry the extra load of 9-1/4 Lbs. My stock style starter weighed 16 -1/4 pounds and my new style lightweight starter weighs 5-1/2 pounds.

 

[33 IMP]

Lightweight Denso style starter will turn that pup over easily, but if you're bent on old school stock type starters, I'm sure that all year starters can do the job, just be ready to carry the extra load of 9-1/4 Lbs. My stock style starter weighed 16 -1/4 pounds and my new style lightweight starter weighs 5-1/2 pounds.

I've got a genuine Mopar performance mini starter on the shelf. Using the original stock style starter. The ancient hooker adjustables im using have a tube going right thru where the mini has to be. The 10 ton stocker fits perfectly. Sob.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I've got a genuine Mopar performance mini starter on the shelf. Using the original stock style starter. The ancient hooker adjustables im using have a tube going right thru where the mini has to be. The 10 ton stocker fits perfectly. Sob.

Odd that the Titanic stocker fits in that space with the header tube and not the SS MINInow which would take up less real estate.

 

[Ceedawg]

There wasn't any one particular part of this for me to highlight, but I'm really glad you covered these things. My opinion may be more biased towards "appearance" and utility which is subjective vs "overall weight, weight distribution, and wheelbase" which is objective. I definitely prefer the Roadrunner, but before
I took a serious "perspective buyer's" drive of a ?71 Demon/Duster 440 auto. It was loud in a beautifully healthy manner and it certainly had the performance to back up the menacing vibes...POWER-TO-WEIGHT in spades!! I mean WOW! a big block A-body defines that combo!
It looked great, paint was that "real" RED (no orange in it) with black stripes...BAD ASSED
BUT
The factory shoulder strap grabbed me right across my neck, literally! So unless Chrysler had some diabolical secret scheme in league with "The WEF and The Illuminati" to reduce the population of big, tall men, that is just how my 6'3" 270# frame fits in an A-body and that made me look at or see easily all the other ways A-bodies are too small for me as a CRUISER that I race occasionally. If I wanted a track car, I may not look at anything but an A-body!
That takes me to my B-body, and a Roadrunner at that. Still a reasonable size car, not something that you need a crew to dock in a parking spot, and I think the 68-70 Roadrunner is lighter than the 71-74 and my 71 Charger R/T certainly felt way heavier. The interior space is comfortable, especially since I switched out the vinyl covered behemoth of a Bench Seat for a couple of SCAT ProCar bucket seats in Yellow and Black at that, and added a matching center console. TOTALLY changed the vibe inside and made it "racy-er" and still weighing less than if I hadn't done anything.
I may be wrong about this but I believe the longer wheelbase of a B-body makes it harder to get sideways under power, and easier to recover from a slip?
Last note on this and I'll probably just read the rest of this thread in peaceful silent observance:

I can assure you that even if my bold colored metal "Voice of the Roadrunner" horn weighed a ridiculous TEN POUNDS there are no fractions of a second or +MPH that I would trade it for, because it is great to give a "Beep-Beep" to the people who line up, gather, and park all along Beach Highway for Cruisin the Coast and specifically ask to hear it, and that saves me some tread on my drag radials because "smokin' em UP!" is the other popular request!
Great thread, I'm out, and apologies for hijacking.

You could’ve used the 5 point racing belts. Frankly in my cars I won’t use the shoulder belt.

 

[33 IMP]

You could’ve used the 5 point racing belts. Frankly in my cars I won’t use the shoulder belt.

I ALWAYS use the five point belt, (minus the crotch strap, on the street) in my cars with rollbars/cages. And lots of soft padding around the head, too .

 

[33 IMP]

Odd that the Titanic stocker fits in that space with the header tube and not the SS MINInow which would take up less real estate.

It seems the solenoid for the mini sticks out farther towards the fender, where the old schools is right on top. There were no minis when hooker built these headers.

 

[biomedtechguy]

You could’ve used the 5 point racing belts. Frankly in my cars I won’t use the shoulder belt.

I ALWAYS use the five point belt, (minus the crotch strap, on the street) in my cars with rollbars/cages. And lots of soft padding around the head, too .

I don't remember if the A-body I test drove had a roll bar, and I definitely didn't see a harness. In my Roadrunner soon after I got it home I replaced the factory shoulder strap/separate waist strap with an aftermarket retractable shoulder+seat belt "3 point?" harness.
My Scat bucket seats have slots for a 5 point harness that probably won't be installed until the roll cage goes in.

 

[Budnicks]

Factory or replacement,
(1993-2001 IIRC)
V8 Dakota starter 5.2ltr/5.9ltr Magnum (mini/compact) works great,
44:1 reduction,
it'll spin that thing like no tomorrow
had several of them on 12.9:1 & 11:1 compression 479cid+ B-series motors
& probably (? I assume) less than 1/2 the weight of the big *** iron OE Hemi
or even the std starter on a org. 68-383cid 335hp RR engine
(I'm not **** enough to actually weigh the differences)
relatively inexpensive too

on the factory Dakota replacement starter
for a 1999 Dakota SLT 318/5.2ltr magnum (IIRC)
I had to trim the 'main 1/4-20 threaded 12vt post'
as to not contact the block, (like a 3/16"-1/4" off, need to check it when installing)
that stud's length is unnecessary on my B-low deck block
without buying some conversion deal to make it go 90*s

they also make like PowerMaster (or other brands)
of mini Dakota Magnum style starters
that can be clocked at like several different angles, for twice the $$
"I think" they are a tad bit lighter than the OE 5.2/5.9ltr Magnum starter,
don't quote me on that, just an observation

 

[biomedtechguy]

Yes, the "90s" Dakota mini starters have been "the" inexpensive great working small starter substitute for the "Hoover Dam Hydro-Electric Turbine" full sized dynamo Chrysler engineers laid on the Mopar Nation, and they intentionally made it "sound funny" too!

BUT
I tried the Dakota starter route only a couple of years after I bought my 440 6bbl Roadrunner and the damn thing didn't fit. It's been years ago, but I know the factory starter wires (molded together on the starter end) and the often mentioned way the posts on the connection block on the starter itself either touch the block or are SO close to the block it's WAY too risky to use IMO, add in the heavy guage starter + power wire and I "opted out". The power block adapter that's so popular may make all that better, but I went with the MSD Red mini starter and it's been great since I installed it appx 5 years ago.
MSD DYNAFORCE STARTER - HIGH TORQUE - RED

 

[dvw]

One more and last thing on the subject of hoods. These skid plates come in two materials: polished stainless steel and aluminum. When you are talking four of these on each corner or more at other locations throughout the hood, it adds up. Yeah, every ounce counts up top and front.
As far as horns, who needs horns when they'll hear you coming from a block away. LOL. All kidding' aside, two horns made out some kind of pot metal weigh in at 4-1/2 Lbs. I weighed and recorded them in my log back in the early 90's and was surprised.
Some people have moved them to the firewall (moving weight rearward) or removed them all together in a race only setup. The GM horns that were made out of plastic weighed much less. Forgot what years they were produced.

View attachment 1471486

Dont forget. The main pin itself can be aluminum.

Amazon product ASIN B003BZQ8U2

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Odd that the Titanic stocker fits in that space with the header tube and not the SS MINInow which would take up less real estate.

Dont forget. The main pin itself can be aluminum.

Amazon product ASIN B003BZQ8U2

Yes, the pins can be aluminum. Moroso makes a set but are too thin for my taste, so the Ring Brothers or Wood Brothers aluminum pins are more beefy and come in satin black.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Yes, the pins can be aluminum. Moroso makes a set but are too thin for my taste, so the Ring Brothers or Wood Brothers aluminum pins are more beefy and come in satin black.

Yes, the pins can be aluminum. Moroso makes a set but are too thin for my taste, so the Ring Brothers or Wood Brothers aluminum pins are more beefy and come in satin black.

Here's the super duty Ring Brothers hood pins on a mysterious Dodge. Aluminum with a steel rotating bearing hole inside. Still lighter than steel hood pins. Very nice piece.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Here's the super duty Ring Brothers hood pins on a mysterious Dodge. Aluminum with a steel rotating bearing hole inside. Still lighter than a steel hood pin. Very nice piece.

View attachment 1472677

Here's the super duty Ring Brothers hood pins on a mysterious Dodge. Aluminum with a steel rotating bearing hole inside. Still lighter than steel hood pins. Very nice piece.

View attachment 1472677

This lightweight Plymouth being tested out west most likely at Pomona is one of the four 2% cars complete with a thin gauge radiator crossmember and Magnesium front Pizza cutter rims. Note the Max wedge scoop as a stand in for the yet to be delivered Hemi scoop.

 

[biomedtechguy]

My wife, a Pontiac fan, mostly by default because she has an awesome 65 GTO Tripower 421, and I who has come to appreciate the best and most unique of all the manufacturers muscle cars, saw the "Swiss Cheese" Pontiac Catalinas at Mecum in Kissimmee about 5 years ago. MAN they really took the hole saw (or whatever they used) to the full frame of those cars! The 421 SD w/2x4bbl and rated at 408HP I believe sounded freakin' MEAN and NASTY with the cam they had in it, and while I'm amazed at what they have done for power output in the last 10 years, knowing how HORRIBLE the late 70s and 80s were with anemic V8s, for me, there's NOTHING that appeals to my senses like OLD SCHOOL MUSCLE!
If nothing else, the exhaust sounds of no cat systems is a symphony to my heart, and almost nothing new tugs at my heart like an old school big block rumbling, or a screaming small block.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

My wife, a Pontiac fan, mostly by default because she has an awesome 65 GTO Tripower 421, and I who has come to appreciate the best and most unique of all the manufacturers muscle cars, saw the "Swiss Cheese" Pontiac Catalinas at Mecum in Kissimmee about 5 years ago. MAN they really took the hole saw (or whatever they used) to the full frame of those cars! The 421 SD w/2x4bbl and rated at 408HP I believe sounded freakin' MEAN and NASTY with the cam they had in it, and while I'm amazed at what they have done for power output in the last 10 years, knowing how HORRIBLE the late 70s and 80s were with anemic V8s, for me, there's NOTHING that appeals to my senses like OLD SCHOOL MUSCLE!
If nothing else, the exhaust sounds of no cat systems is a symphony to my heart, and almost nothing new tugs at my heart like an old school big block rumbling, or a screaming small block.

True this indeed.
There's nothing like the bass and treble concert of a V8, especially of the flat tappet kind.
I could be wrong but those SD Swiss cars most probably had McKellar cams in them via factory specs. By virtue of their design and mass, they had no choice but to truly be off the deep end with their Keystone cops diet programs. Insane to think that an aluminum header exhaust would survive those temperatures at the head using almost pure aluminum. Far more primitive compared to the alchemy of different alloys that make up the bulk of todays aluminum heads and blocks.

As far as GTO's, I love them. Especially 1965 post sedans. Legend has it that a small batch of Royal '65 GTO's (maybe 6 or so) came through the stampings plant with thinner gauge metal panels for the roof, quarter panels and main body. Pontiac was off the charts and were arguably the first to crack the fad of using front end aluminum panels before everyone else. I've even heard of one or two aluminum fender/hood '64 Goats out there back when.

 

[biomedtechguy]

IF I can get a hard launch, IOW traction at RPMs, with practice and a sharp tune up, this should be a mid to high 12 second car. My dad's 65 GTO close to stock Tripower 389 4 speed, on "cheater slicks" ran 12.8...
This has a 0.035 over 421 Tripower, Comp hydraulic roller cam, massaged iron heads, and the only thing dad had was a higher CR at about 11¾:1 vs 10:1.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

IF I can get a hard launch, IOW traction at RPMs, with practice and a sharp tune up, this should be a mid to high 12 second car. My dad's 65 GTO close to stock Tripower 389 4 speed, on "cheater slicks" ran 12.8...
This has a 0.035 over 421 Tripower, Comp hydraulic roller cam, massaged iron heads, and the only thing dad had was a higher CR at about 11¾:1 vs 10:1.

Speaking of Swiss, if a diet is in store, responsible and smart removal or modification has to be paramount. Those Swiss cars were pretty much all twisted up after a season or two under the stresses of racing. Be it racing or street, consider the safety of others as well as your own.

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

well we made a glass hood for our 63 ply fury , removed the hinges and latches , went with dzus fasteners , but should have been four pins to be era correct . it had a jet plane type openings at first , but that was later changed to fresh air cleaners in the wind .

 

[fullmetaljacket]

well we made a glass hood for our 63 ply fury , removed the hinges and latches , went with dzus fasteners , but should have been four pins to be era correct . it had a jet plane type openings at first , but that was later changed to fresh air cleaners in the wind .

View attachment 1473090

View attachment 1473091

Fiber glass or Carbon? Nice job.

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

carbon fiber i believe , we also made a front bumper for it . but never ran it . and we ran vintage american racing equip magnesium torq thrusts on it 4's up front and 10's in the rear