The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[Dodge 330]

While you're at it might as well replace these fasteners as well;

Fuel pump block off
Distributor clamp and bolt
Oil pan bolts
Intake manifold bolts
Carburetor studs and nuts
Valve cover studs and nuts
Water pump bolts
Timing cover bolts
T-stat housing bolts
Alternator bracket and belt adjuster bolts
Coil bracket bolts
Crank pulley bolts

Probably be an expensive proposition but I bet it'd be several pounds off the front of the car if you changed all the non-critical engine fasteners to Ti.

There's also the trans pan, radiator bolts, bellhousing bolts (?) etc... basically whatever fasteners that just hold stuff on.

I have some of those items on order and working on the rest.

 

[rmchrgr]

I have some of those items on order and working on the rest.

 

[Badvert65]

Not all fasteners need to have Titanium strength. I am using aluminum fasteners for valve cover, timing cover, oil pan, fuel pump block off, to name a few.

 

[rmchrgr]

Not all fasteners need to have Titanium strength. I am using aluminum fasteners for valve cover, timing cover, oil pan, fuel pump block off, to name a few.

C'mon man, don't try to use any of that pesky logic around here, it's cool to say you have titanium timing cover bolts!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Not all fasteners need to have Titanium strength. I am using aluminum fasteners for valve cover, timing cover, oil pan, fuel pump block off, to name a few.

As most of you know, the motor has had every exterior fastener replaced in either aluminum or titanium except the long alternator mounting bolt and distributor bolt. These are the last that are now getting changed stemming from badverts discovery.
True it is, that aluminum is holding up a lot of the parts that Badvert mentioned. Just using good grade T-2024 aluminum with anti seize and not too an extreme squeeze.
Rmchrgr likes to bust hump. LOL. I'm sure he will follow suit, but then again he has a light car already and has been involved in endless discussions about this madness.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

And must we not forget the very top of the engine itself. The aluminum air cleaner nut and washer.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Here's a Distributor hold down bolt in high grade Titanium from Mettec. It's a 5/16-18 X 2" long.
To add, I have this very same bolt in a much lighter aluminum, but because of the expected stresses of keeping a sprung aluminum distributor hold down bracket in place, which in turn keeps the distributor in place, It would be better to have a titanium. Good insurance to keeping any movement in timing from happening.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

One elusive item for this creation simply because it isn't produced and thus available, is the dreaded transmission slip yoke in Titanium. This is where strength is needed obviously, but it would be gravy if it were available in the pretty super strong light alloy.

 

[fourgearsavoy]

I would like to compare the CM unit from Strange,MW,etc... to the forged unit like the one pictured. Probably not much difference but it could be made lighter due to the strength of CM. Both of my shafts use 1350 forged units.
Gus

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I would like to compare the CM unit from Strange,MW,etc... to the forged unit like the one pictured. Probably not much difference but it could be made lighter due to the strength of CM. Both of my shafts use 1350 forged units.
Gus

Yeah, I think the CM yoke could be a little lighter, but I just didn't want to spend the coin for several units to find out. I would think that any yoke should NOT be modified or lightened in any manner for safety reasons. IIRC, someone out there makes titanium yokes, but not for the 27's.

 

[weedburner]

For those with manual transmissions, a clutch hit control device can make it possible to get away with lighter, less robust driveline parts. My personal street/strip car has been 5.73 w/ 1.30 60' on 28spl axles, 2-1/2"od x .065" wall driveshaft, 1310 u-joints. A clutch hit control device also flips the conventional wisdom of the heavier a stick shift drag car is, the harder it will be on drivetrain parts.

Grant

 

[padam]

For those with manual transmissions, a clutch hit control device can make it possible to get away with lighter, less robust driveline parts. My personal street/strip car has been 5.73 w/ 1.30 60' on 28spl axles, 2-1/2"od x .065" wall driveshaft, 1310 u-joints. A clutch hit control device also flips the conventional wisdom of the heavier a stick shift drag car is, the harder it will be on drivetrain parts.

Grant

Doesn’t it weigh about 2300?

 

[weedburner]

Doesn’t it weigh about 2300?

2525lbs with me in it, but a clutch hit controller can flip conventional wisdom. Here's a copy/paste explanation from one of my webpages...

Is a Heavy Drag Car Really More Likely To Break a Transmission?-
Most stick shift drag racers subscribe to the conventional wisdom that says the heavier a drag car is, the more abuse it will inflict on its transmission and drivetrain. My viewpoint is the only way adding weight makes an actual difference is if wheelspeed is part of the launch. Adding weight typically equals more weight on the tire, requiring you to hit that tire harder with inertia to get the wheelspeed you need, which in-turn means the transmission will then see a higher peak load as a result. But all that changes when you install a 2-stage clutch hit controller, as the goal with a clutch hit controller is not controlled wheelspin, but instead controlling the rate that the clutch draws inertia against WOT. Since a heavier car accelerates at a slower rate, it's clutch will also need to draw the engine down at a slower rate to keep rpm in its optimum range.

Here's a crude theoretical comparison based on Wallace calculator "ideal" numbers. One 3500lbs and the other 2500lbs, both with the same 620whp. Wallace says the 3500lb car runs 10.00 @ 132.5 with a 1.39 60', while the 2500lb car runs 8.95 @ 148.04 with a 1.24 60'. Both have same tires, same 1st gear, and both geared for 7500 at the stripe- 4.72 gear for the 3500lb car and 4.22 gear for the 2500lb car. Both are also using clutch hit controllers tuned for a 7500 hit that draws down to 5500 before the clutch locks up. Based on averaged acceleration rates over the first 60' of each car, the 3500lb car takes 0.81sec to draw 2000rpm worth of inertia, while the 2500lb car accelerates quicker and takes only 0.755sec to draw the same 2000rpm of inertia. The heavier car spreads the same inertia draw over a longer time period, which in-turn effectively reduces the peak impact value of the inertia that gets passed along to the input shaft.

A key thing to note is that although both cars in the above example have the same 620whp and transmission, rear gears are different to achieve the same 7500 at the stripe-
......4.72 for the 3500lb car that goes 132mph
......4.22 for the 2500lb car that goes 148mph

If one were simply increasing weight with the same rear gearing, then that conventional wisdom would apply. But when you gear for the stripe as drag racers do, the heavier/slower car gets more rear gear which in-turn decreases the load on the transmission. When you remove wheelspeed from the stick shift launch equation, in-turn allowing both clutches to be tuned to draw the same amount of inertia, that conventional wisdom goes right out the window.

Grant

 

[weedburner]

Here's a link to the page that the above copy/paste came from...
ClutchTamer.com

 

[padam]

Here's a link to the page that the above copy/paste came from...
ClutchTamer.com

But all other things being equal, a lighter car is quicker.
That’s what this thread is about.

 

[weedburner]

My point for this thread is that for a stick shift car, a clutch hit controller can allow you to use lighter drivetrain components than would otherwise be possible.

Grant

 

[fullmetaljacket]

My point for this thread is that for a stick shift car, a clutch hit controller can allow you to use lighter drivetrain components than would otherwise be possible.

Grant

HHmmmmmm. Interesting. It all makes sense.

 

[rmchrgr]

My point for this thread is that for a stick shift car, a clutch hit controller can allow you to use lighter drivetrain components than would otherwise be possible.

Grant

So basically what this boils down to is that you can get away with an 8 3/4" instead of a Dana because of the clutch slip. All else being equal that's 100lbs. Perhaps that would also translate to smaller U joints and yokes too. Not sure if there is anything else to consider.

Don't know how much traditional clutch linkage weighs but I'd bet a hydraulic throwout bearing setup could be lighter as well - no clutch fork, rods, Z bar or pivot. The master cylinder for those setups is usually aluminum and the reservoir is plastic.

If you run a blow proof bell those things are ridiculously heavy so any weight savings could potentially be erased just by having one of those on board.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

So basically what this boils down to is that you can get away with an 8 3/4" instead of a Dana because of the clutch slip. All else being equal that's 100lbs. Perhaps that would also translate to smaller U joints and yokes too. Not sure if there is anything else to consider.

Don't know how much traditional clutch linkage weighs but I'd bet a hydraulic throwout bearing setup could be lighter as well - no clutch fork, rods, Z bar or pivot. The master cylinder for those setups is usually aluminum and the reservoir is plastic.

If you run a blow proof bell those things are ridiculously heavy so any weight savings could potentially be erased just by having one of those on board.

As far as scatter shields are concerned, yes they are heavy with the exception of course, if one would spring for a Trick Titanium scatter shield which could set you back a few thou$and dollar$. If I were to ever campaign a pedal car, it would be safe to say that I'd go the whole nine yards to make it as light as possible to keep from breaking stuff, even with a clutch tamer on board.
Clutch tamer set-ups are becoming the norm now and it is cool that the technology exists to enable drivers to have several options in that tough field. STICK cars are the s(-)!t.

 

[weedburner]

I fab'd a lighter 3pc steel bellhousing for the car, bare bell is 16.3 lbs. Bell with steel block plate, steel mid plate and bolts is 26.2lbs. Made it 3pc so I could pull either the engine or transmission without need for any added support.
For comparison, McLeod aluminum bell with titanium liner (no block plate) is listed as 14.81lbs.

Here it is tacked together before welding...

Here's the finished product...

Just a fun street car, no need for a sfi cert.

Also fab'd a lighter sheet metal tailhousing to replace my Toploader's stock cast iron tail. Got the transmission's weight down to 91.4lbs including oil and a slip yoke...

The '71 Charger sitting in the driveway will be getting a similar treatment, plan is a vintage dirt track style build for the street with radiused wheelwells and wide-5 hubs.

Grant