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The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

dvw said:
Not everyone realizes you don't need high dollar tools to fabricate. Just need to think outside the box. Though not all of us have FMJ's artistic tallent. It really helps when you have a good friend that is a fantastic tig welder. I'm very thankful in that regard.
Doug

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Thank you for the kind words.
So you see, this is what I love about this community of mad scientists, make it happen with anything and any which way. I've done so much with found objects from the street, including the rare straight and true 2X4's that can be a great help in clamping stuff down for the bends that would rival a break machine.
Yes, having a class A-welding ace within a phone calls reach is the ace card to making anything.

Doug, the next time I'm in the D, can I borrow some of those 2X4's out of your tool box. I promise to bring them back. LOL.
 
fullmetaljacket said:
Thank you for the kind words.
So you see, this is what I love about this community of mad scientists, make it happen with anything and any which way. I've done so much with found objects from the street, including the rare straight and true 2X4's that can be a great help in clamping stuff down for the bends that would rival a break machine.
Yes, having a class A-welding ace within a phone calls reach is the ace card to making anything.

Doug, the next time I'm in the D, can I borrow some of those 2X4's out of your tool box. I promise to bring them back. LOL.
Click to expand...
Only if I can borrow the jack handle. The lower 1/4s on my race car were bent around 10" PVC. This car had missing corners of the wheel well. And all the way to the door. The front lip was moved 4" forward, axle 3". The lower rear corners were hand formed from 3 pieces welded together. First time. Never made large patches before this.
Doug

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Amazing what a few hues of spray paint mists and feathering can do to hide things in plain site.
This is a stock cast steel mirror bracket.................... did I really say that? LOL.
Till later.

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fullmetaljacket said:
RMCHRGR thinks differently. He says: "Who are you fooling with that thing hanging underneath when people can hear it coming from two blocks away in loud a$$ NYC. LOL.
Click to expand...
All else being equal, a painted oil pan might be worth a tenth and maybe 1-2 mph.
 
rmchrgr said:
All else being equal, a painted oil pan might be worth a tenth and maybe 1-2 mph.
Click to expand...
It will be painted indeed. Going to try an optic trick using two colors that was suggested by one of the members here to fool the naked eye into thinking that the pan is half as deep. In other words, a shallow STOCK oil pan.
 
Curbside parking while getting a slim coat of primer etching sealer. Aluminum needs teeth to grab top coat paint well.
Up next will be the Race Hemi Orange in slim coats. Don't want to add on any unnecessary ounces. LOL.

Here's the bummer news.
I was under the assumption that going aluminum would yield me at least half the weight of the steel pan which weighed 7-1/2 Lbs.
After all the welding to modify this aluminum pan to fit in the chassis and clear the drag link, I lost only 3/4 Lbs. I think the majority of the extra weight is the actual pan mounting rail which is 3/8ths thick. Hey, at least it lost a little bit of something.

This thing had me up in arms for the last month or so between thinking of modifying a brand new dropped drag link or performing surgery on this brand new pan. After many discussions with y'all and some of my buddies, I opted for the pan to go under the knife and I'm glad that I did. Some of my buddies are glad as well because now their ears can cool off. LOL.

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dvw said:
Only if I can borrow the jack handle. The lower 1/4s on my race car were bent around 10" PVC. This car had missing corners of the wheel well. And all the way to the door. The front lip was moved 4" forward, axle 3". The lower rear corners were hand formed from 3 pieces welded together. First time. Never made large patches before this.
Doug

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Hey DVW
I have some ultra lightweight plastic air valve caps to match those replica fiberglass steel wheel covers. LOL.
Seriously, your sons '62 should fly the mail this coming season.

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If y'all know these knobs and their mounting bezels on early B-cars, you know that they are well made, but butt heavy.
Heavy is relative depending on who you're talking to and as far as I am concerned, these are too heavy in respect to their functionings.
The stubbornness in this car is to hand build them, but there may be an opportunity to 3D print them as well.
This will be the next project, but will probably take a back seat for now as life is calling.
Stay tuned.

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Half pan will travel.

This is the base coat of black to shorten things a little. A few lightly feathered coats of grey, hammered bronze and flat black will follow on top of blackened lower half.
I forgot who suggested this idea on here, but it could be fun masquerading the pan against the black chassis for an optical illusion.

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Now that the new aluminum pan has seated itself and the silicone has cured, it's time to remove the steel bolts (Below) one at a time and ..............................

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.................................................replace them with T-2024 grade aluminum bolts, flat and lock washers.
A few shades under a 1/2 pound shaved? I'll take it.
At least this was way easier than the aluminum pan itself which after all that trouble, time and $$, only shaved off 3/4 of a pound. This ground war against weight is costly with pockets of fun in between.

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Keep in mind folks, that this thing still harnesses an all iron factory block, so any aluminum condiments and parts that it could receive is a step closer.
As a note: aluminum heads, intake manifold, valve covers, water pump housing, water pump, water thermostat housing, alternator brackets, belt pulleys and now an aluminum oil pan grace this iron block

As of yet, I have not been sold on an aluminum block especially because of the different kinks and links to bad behavior that they allegedly could have in a real street car. I came this_ close to going with a wet KB unit, but of course both personal and professional issues arose over there, so I looked for the first offramp and idled to the side of caution to wait it out.

Whenever any of these aluminum block manufactures figure this all out, I'll be first in line since it could shave a potential real 110 Lbs off the front end.
With all due respect, and respect much achieved, I won't go aluminum HELLephant with this.
I'm basically stuck in the past trying to haunt the ghosts of the OLD Chrysler Corporation that even though their programs succeeded for the most part, whatever was left on the table is now being explored with no strings attached.

A small tell-all limited edition booklet complete with photos, drawings and notes will be available soon.
 
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Back in the 70's when I was a kid, we used to make fun of the flathead guys that were stuck in the past. Fast forward to 2025, now i'm the stuck in the past guy with my sbc's!

Here's actual rotating weight data collected from my personal 2525lb driver/car. Sbc power, but exact same car/trans/flywheel/clutch/gearing/tires. Exact same heads/intake/carb/cam/compression. Only difference between these two sessions was the engine's rotating assy weight...

...with Scat cast crank (49lbs), 707g steel rods, 1863g bobweight.
......WOT no-load rev rate of 8500rev/sec between 4500-5500rpm
......1st gear WOT 2000 to 4000 rpm rev rate- 1634 rpm/sec
......1st gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 1975 rpm/sec
......2nd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 1070 rpm/sec
......3rd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 535 rpm/sec
......no 4th gear data available for comparison

In 3rd gear @ 535rev/sec accel rate, 31.47ftlbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 468.53ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.
In 1st gear @ 1975rev/sec accel rate, 116.18ftllbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 383.82ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.

...with Scat F43 lightweight crank (42.1lbs), 473g aluminum rods, 1492g bobweight, counterweight OD also turned to reduce need to drill crank for balance.
......WOT no-load rev rate of 11,515rev/sec between 4500-5500rpm
......1st gear WOT 2000 to 4000 rpm rev rate- 1910 rpm/sec (276 rpm/sec difference) = 18.8% gain
......1st gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 2217 rpm/sec (242 rpm/sec difference) = 12.2% gain
......2nd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 1116 rpm/sec (46 rpm/sec difference) = 4.2% gain
......3rd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 541 rpm/sec (6 rpm/sec difference) = 1.1% gain
......no 4th gear data available for comparison.

In 3rd gear @ 541rev/sec accel rate, 23.49ftlbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 476.51ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.
In 1st gear @ 2217rev/sec accel rate, 96.27ftllbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 403.73ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.

Comparing the two with some rough torque calculations applied...
...both engines put out the same torque when operating steady state @ 5000rpm.
...at WOT 4500-5500 3rd gear acceleration rate, the lightweight rotating assy hits the transmission's input shaft with about 7.98ftlbs more torque.
...at WOT 4500-5500 1st gear acceleration rate, the lightweight rotating assy hits the transmission's input shaft with about 19.91ftlbs more torque.

The difference in bobweight was about 3.27lbs, crankshaft weight difference about 6.9lbs. Pretty good return for a 10.17lb weight reduction!

Grant
 
weedburner said:
Back in the 70's when I was a kid, we used to make fun of the flathead guys that were stuck in the past. Fast forward to 2025, now i'm the stuck in the past guy with my sbc's!

Here's actual rotating weight data collected from my personal 2525lb driver/car. Sbc power, but exact same car/trans/flywheel/clutch/gearing/tires. Exact same heads/intake/carb/cam/compression. Only difference between these two sessions was the engine's rotating assy weight...

...with Scat cast crank (49lbs), 707g steel rods, 1863g bobweight.
......WOT no-load rev rate of 8500rev/sec between 4500-5500rpm
......1st gear WOT 2000 to 4000 rpm rev rate- 1634 rpm/sec
......1st gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 1975 rpm/sec
......2nd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 1070 rpm/sec
......3rd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 535 rpm/sec
......no 4th gear data available for comparison

In 3rd gear @ 535rev/sec accel rate, 31.47ftlbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 468.53ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.
In 1st gear @ 1975rev/sec accel rate, 116.18ftllbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 383.82ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.

...with Scat F43 lightweight crank (42.1lbs), 473g aluminum rods, 1492g bobweight, counterweight OD also turned to reduce need to drill crank for balance.
......WOT no-load rev rate of 11,515rev/sec between 4500-5500rpm
......1st gear WOT 2000 to 4000 rpm rev rate- 1910 rpm/sec (276 rpm/sec difference) = 18.8% gain
......1st gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 2217 rpm/sec (242 rpm/sec difference) = 12.2% gain
......2nd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 1116 rpm/sec (46 rpm/sec difference) = 4.2% gain
......3rd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm rev rate- 541 rpm/sec (6 rpm/sec difference) = 1.1% gain
......no 4th gear data available for comparison.

In 3rd gear @ 541rev/sec accel rate, 23.49ftlbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 476.51ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.
In 1st gear @ 2217rev/sec accel rate, 96.27ftllbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 403.73ftlbs twisting the transmission's input shaft.

Comparing the two with some rough torque calculations applied...
...both engines put out the same torque when operating steady state @ 5000rpm.
...at WOT 4500-5500 3rd gear acceleration rate, the lightweight rotating assy hits the transmission's input shaft with about 7.98ftlbs more torque.
...at WOT 4500-5500 1st gear acceleration rate, the lightweight rotating assy hits the transmission's input shaft with about 19.91ftlbs more torque.

The difference in bobweight was about 3.27lbs, crankshaft weight difference about 6.9lbs. Pretty good return for a 10.17lb weight reduction!

Grant
Click to expand...
I feel what you are saying. Those are good returns for such little weight. As little as it sounds, it's huge in rotational as apposed to static.
I did not seriously look at any bob weight and crank weight reduction when the engine was built years back, but I'm sure that the whole entire assembly will be looked at very seriously for rotational weight reduction on its next refresh.
Now to find a competent and honest builder is a whole other story.
 
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