The Flipper world is really messing up the car market

[Hey-O]

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Unbelievable: Sold car now he want's his money back
If I equate "flipper" with "dealer" the person so labeled might get to a given car first and hold it ransom.
Generally speaking, any person in the business of buying and selling has spent time and is possibly gaining profit on their time.
Fair dinkum.
But if under consideration the OP is specific to a hobby, most of us have limited time to spend on it and therein lies the rub.
We are not doing it for a living. And perhaps someone could not have gotten there first.
Under consideration is a reportedly undesirable car that languished.
But consider more desired cars in the scenario like grandma's cream puff Cutlass and the economic situation.
In 2012 during "the great recession" when many houses were in foreclosure, I made a cash offer on a desirable property for more than the listing.
(Last sold for 450K. Bank owned listing for 150K. I was going to live in it. Primary residence.)
I found it on Zillow and got there even before the 15 day "first look initiative" at the time was up. It was not on MLS either.
But another agent was "friends" with another buyer. They got the house for less than my cash offer.
Ostensibly, there was already a contract on it.
And the listing broker was "out of the country" to my agent.
That's a long story short with details left out. But it was very shady and may illustrate a point. The buyer later sold it after waiting on a special loan to buy it. (Can't say more)
The bank holding the property took less than my cash offer. My offer was much better time wise as well.
I've got the listing and sales for my county at that time in a magazine.
It's obvious what was happening. Agent's were snapping up the desirable properties on the first day. They got there first.

There once was a man that worked at a bank that was highjacking properties from under people coming in for a loan. He was killing it, till I got there and he tried it on me. I MADE them walk him out, either that, or I was going to own that bank. I get it, *** wipes are born every minute and they live all around us. One down, and many to go...........

 

[68BabyBlue]

Car flippers and car show trophy hunters are trying to ruin the hobby. Trying to make everything about the numbers, production number, date code, price tag, how much was spent on the car, numbers numbers numbers. That’s what some people chase after. I bet the people that buy cars like that don’t even a give a flip how good/bad whatever, they spent x amount and now their pp feels really big

I swam against this current for over 20 years trying to buy my current GTX. The past owner had been digesting this stuff for the 28 years he owned the car, and it imprinted a number with him that kept him from selling it. A major factor in closing the deal at what I considered a fair price for both parties was the fact I could cite real numbers from selling my past cars privately. I emphasized that the nosebleed prices at the big auctions also required giving up healthy fees to access that fringe market.

One factor that enters into any deal, regardless of the market, is willingness to walk away from the table. I walked out when we were within 10% of my target price, but we closed a month later at the exact number I was shooting for. It was a better deal than any I negotiated in my legal career, but these are the exception not the norm, and modern day marketing has certainly made things tougher for the buyer.

 

[70 sublime]

Last car I went and looked at was this one 1970 Plymouth
Not to far away from my place so I was there first
When I got there the seller said another guy was on his way that called first but was farther away
I had the $7500 in my pocket that was the asking price as I was just looking for something quick to get going to have a summer toy on the road this year
Seller said he was going to wait on other guy because he said he would
I did not push it as I would not be happy either if on my way someone else scooped it up

Now I see this ad pop up a week later for $14500 for the same car
When I saw it it had the bulge hood but seller want to keep hood and put original back on it
I may have replied to the ad when it first came out .......
But now smile everytime I see it get relisted with no sale......

1970 B body plymouth patina V8 matching number | Classic Cars | City of Toronto | Kijiji

 

[DynaBro]

The car has the correct dash for a Superbee. All 68 to 70 Superbees had the Chargers rallye dash as standard equipment.

No, the 70 Super Bee had a wood grain dash. This is black.

 

[Hey-O]

One factor that enters into any deal, regardless of the market, is willingness to walk away from the table.

Words to live by! I've had people tell me, get it while you can. I live by the the old story of the old bull and the young bull. I need nothing that I would sell my soul for. One of one, is one persons opinion. A green car with a six cylinder, 4 speed, and blue interior is one of one, no thanks.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Words to live by! I've had people tell me, get it while you can. I live by the the old story of the old bull and the young bull. I need nothing that I would sell my soul for. One of one, is one persons opinion. A green car with a six cylinder, 4 speed, and blue interior is one of one, no thanks.

When the previous owner played the “one of one card” I replied that I was the same as a buyer. He ultimately agreed.

 

[DynaBro]

The flippers have so successfully conflated asking price and value that I constantly see guys chiming in on Facebook that a V Code is worth 80K, and 100K if it's numbers matching and in nice shape. No one can point to a single sale that supports this. There are a handful you can point to in the 60K range and the occasional outlier but they have specific reasons (rarity and provenance). I can dig up a dozen sales in the 40-50K range from 2019-2022. They make the inflation argument, which also doesn't hold water. Certain commodities raised 2x but collectibles, no. And a classic car is a collectible.

 

[chargervert]

No, the 70 Super Bee had a wood grain dash. This is black.

My 69 A12 Superbee had the same black dash.

 

[DynaBro]

My 69

Exactly.

 

[68BabyBlue]

There are a handful you can point to in the 60K range and the occasional outlier but they have specific reasons (rarity and provenance). I can dig up a dozen sales in the 40-50K range from 2019-2022. They make the inflation argument, which also doesn't hold water. Certain commodities raised 2x but collectibles, no. And a classic car is a collectible.

When I owned my '68 Hemi GTX, observers frequently made comments about it being a six figure car. It wasn't, because it was green, and originally a column automatic. Black four speed with provenance and broadcast sheet, different story. Outlier sales can play two ways. First example, sophisticated, qualified buyer pays a premium for a really nice car with all the right stuff. Second, I think more common, but can't prove it, unsophisticated buyer with windfall money burning a hole in his pocket overpays for what is typically available on the open market.

 

[fesser]

Yup, this 67 charger just sold here for 6k, a few days later showed up for 25k without even a wash job? Didn't sell so now listed for 27k??

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Wish I'd have seen that when it was 6K.

 

[DynaBro]

When I owned my '68 Hemi GTX, observers frequently made comments about it being a six figure car. It wasn't, because it was green, and originally a column automatic. Black four speed with provenance and broadcast sheet, different story. Outlier sales can play two ways. First example, sophisticated, qualified buyer pays a premium for a really nice car with all the right stuff. Second, I think more common, but can't prove it, unsophisticated buyer with windfall money burning a hole in his pocket overpays for what is typically available on the open market.

And then there's the problem of telling vs showing. On forums you constantly see this discussion peppered with claims of "These go for 90K! I see it all the time." And they never have an example they can prove, and if they do it's ONE, it was an auction, and there are many outlying factors contributing to that price as you stated. For example is that V Code for sale in MN for 80K even worth even 60k? Unlikely. It's an undesirable color, not very well restored, not an N96, no track pack options, etc. It's the slimmest package you could order with a V Code and in drive quality condition. But it is nicer than the car at the core of this discussion, which seems to be propping it's value up on the track pack but has no broadcast sheet and the fender tag is fake.

 

[Detective D]

Exhibit A ....

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-acura-nsx-t-22/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2024-08-11

The NSX is a "holy grail' car for the generation that desires Japanese sports cars, and particularily 1990's era. They invented the V-Tech technology for this car. i doubt there are many with sub-4000 miles on them. In blue.
R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R is the other grail car.
Is it worth that much money? NO. But I can understand crazy collectors paying prime money for a prime car. If this was an accident car with a reconstructed title and 90k miles on it, it would have gone for 40k.
See also: Honda S2000. A different scale maybe, but similar crazy. I wish I would have bought one or two when they were $7k just a couple years ago, but i did not predict millenials with no job would have the money they do somehow.
Yet another: Mid 90's Toyota Supra. Some millenial spent his dad's money to put a turbo that won;t spool until the car hits 6k RPM and made 700RWHP so now they all want one. It has like 110HP when you leave a stop sign, and the tires can;t hold the power unless the car is doing 100MPH already once it gets closer to redline, so it is undrivable, but kids on the internet with someone else's money look at numbers these days, and numbers are all they look at. Part of why they drool themselves over a tesla.

But, besides whatever latest internet influencer craze hits, they won't spend retard money on a rotten wreck. The only excepetion I have ever seen was influencer craze "drift car" Nissan 240SX. They went full retard on those. Most of the rotten wreck flippers are selling to old guys with stock market money and no brains.