To rebody or not to rebody

[696pack]

Shorty,
I am posting on this subject only to state the facts and not argue with others and don't want this to get out of hand. I am answering your post in a PM.

 

[Shorty Thompson]

Shorty,
I am posting on this subject only to state the facts and not argue with others and don't want this to get out of hand. I am answering your post in a PM.

okie dokie . I'll read it , and respond accordingly . Ok !

 

[chrisd]

Picture this:
You find the Mopar of your dreams, a 69 Hemi Whatzit, sitting in a pasture where it was parked in 71. You ask the owner of the farm if you can take a look at the old Dodgmouth out back and he says "look all you want. I'd sell it to ya fer $235." You try to hide your enthusiasm when you discover that this car is 100 percent numbers matching and still even has the window sticker in the glovebox. You quickly make the purchase and excavate whats left of this rare car and trailer it home. This thing is a friggin mess. Every piece of sheetmetal needs replaced, the frame sagged 20 years ago, and the roof is even rusted through. You are thinking of writing this one off, but your research leads you to find that this car is the only 69 Whatzit to be equipped with both the Hemi and green bench seat interior. Rarer still is the fact that it was painted toilet seat pink from the factory, a special order color.
Then you find her rust free southern twin on Ubuy. Friggin identical except that it has the slant five and was painted nipple brown. Your clicker finger is quick, and you snipe the other bidder. Once you have that Whatzit in your garage, it occurs to you how simple it would be to do a switcheroo. Besides, the five cylinder car has no paperwork, so if you don't do the presto-chango-vin deal you are stuck with 2 parts cars. Knowing that 69 Whatzits are hard to find in your part of the country, and are always either basket cases or cost 80 gigillion bucks, it would be sinfull to scrap 2 of them instead of making one good one from the two.



Dirtbags who alter Vins and fendertags, that is another story entirely!!!!

I'd have to disagree with your making two of one theory. While I'm not against a parts car by any means, if the"Parts car" you bought ends being the better car, I'd have a problem swapping everything including a VIN tag to make it the '69 Hemi Whatzit. If we could just swap the VIN tags because one is the better car, what's to stop someone from buying a NEW shell from an aftermarket vendor and doing the same? Now is this really a '69 Hemi Whatzit or is it the same as altering VIN tags?

On a side note what have really come to when we count the green bench seat interiors? Pretty soon I'll have the number 1 of zero! LOL

 

[426HemiCharger]

I'm neutral but an idea that may take the "illegality" out of this might be to buy AMD sheetmetal and assemble the entire car from new metal and splice the numbers it. Just a quick thought...

 

[696pack]

I'd have to disagree with your making two of one theory. While I'm not against a parts car by any means, if the"Parts car" you bought ends being the better car, I'd have a problem swapping everything including a VIN tag to make it the '69 Hemi Whatzit. If we could just swap the VIN tags because one is the better car, what's to stop someone from buying a NEW shell from an aftermarket vendor and doing the same? Now is this really a '69 Hemi Whatzit or is it the same as altering VIN tags?

On a side note what have really come to when we count the green bench seat interiors? Pretty soon I'll have the number 1 of zero! LOL

Nothing, in fact that is what happens when you buy a new repop Camaro or Mustang body from Dynacorn. In fact they TELL you that it is NOT a kit car and is to be used as a restoration body and you use your existing V.I.N. plate and title. Mopars are likely not far away from this with AMD if they create a complete unibody rather than all the parts they currently make.

 

[Revhendo]

Nothing, in fact that is what happens when you buy a new repop Camaro or Mustang body from Dynacorn. In fact they TELL you that it is NOT a kit car and is to be used as a restoration body and you use your existing V.I.N. plate and title. Mopars are likely not far away from this with AMD if they create a complete unibody rather than all the parts they currently make.

The Dynacorn bodies do come with a manufacturer number instead of a VIN for registration purposes.

 

[chrisd]

Nothing, in fact that is what happens when you buy a new repop Camaro or Mustang body from Dynacorn. In fact they TELL you that it is NOT a kit car and is to be used as a restoration body and you use your existing V.I.N. plate and title. Mopars are likely not far away from this with AMD if they create a complete unibody rather than all the parts they currently make.

I stand educated. I thought they pushed those as a kit.

 

[696pack]

The Dynacorn bodies do come with a manufacturer number instead of a VIN for registration purposes.

The last thing that I saw on this issue was from a Dynacorn website that listed the below in it's FAQs section addressing the V.I.N./registration question. HOWEVER,when I just checked they now have a section for vehicle registration that links you to a web site for all different state's vehicle registration links. I would imagine they got tired of answering these questions for buyers/owner for each individual state.

This is how they used to answer this question in the FAQs section but it is now gone.


Question: 2005/06/29

What about the VIN?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer: 2005/06/29

A Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.

1) An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority).
2) A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection.
3) A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.

 

[Revhendo]

The last thing that I saw on this issue was from a Dynacorn website that listed the below in it's FAQs section addressing the V.I.N./registration question. HOWEVER,when I just checked they now have a section for vehicle registration that links you to a web site for all different state's vehicle registration links. I would imagine they got tired of answering these questions for buyers/owner for each individual state.

This is how they used to answer this question in the FAQs section but it is now gone.


Question: 2005/06/29

What about the VIN?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer: 2005/06/29

A Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.

1) An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority).
2) A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection.
3) A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.

Alrighty then,
Having built a car (69 Camaro) from nothing but new parts, I can say that the body (Dynacorn) comes with a manufacturer number affixed to where the VIN tag would go. In the process of registering this abortion, you must (in California) have it inspected by the CHP, who then rivet a registration number to the vehicle. You then must take all of your build receipts for everything to the DMV, be lucky enough to be one of the first 500 folks applying for a specialty construction title and register your car.

As stated, the body comes with a manufacturer number.

 

[wannadrag]

Or you can go the hot rodders route and buy a title.Think all those glass Willys and 32 Ford coupes were inspected,NOT.Most of those rat rods are titled as something different.

 

[426HemiCharger]

Nothing, in fact that is what happens when you buy a new repop Camaro or Mustang body from Dynacorn. In fact they TELL you that it is NOT a kit car and is to be used as a restoration body and you use your existing V.I.N. plate and title. Mopars are likely not far away from this with AMD if they create a complete unibody rather than all the parts they currently make.

True I did see that, but I mentioned a specific manufacturer of repop sheel metal. Now I really think that the hott rodders truck might not be such a good idea, which encompasses VIN fraud on another level.

 

[696pack]

Alrighty then,
Having built a car (69 Camaro) from nothing but new parts, I can say that the body (Dynacorn) comes with a manufacturer number affixed to where the VIN tag would go. In the process of registering this abortion, you must (in California) have it inspected by the CHP, who then rivet a registration number to the vehicle. You then must take all of your build receipts for everything to the DMV, be lucky enough to be one of the first 500 folks applying for a specialty construction title and register your car.

As stated, the body comes with a manufacturer number.

Yes, it vaeries from stat to state, however many people are simply buying the Dynacorn body and transfering their existing (or purchased wrecked or rust bucket likev type car) V.I.N. and using it's title for this purpose and not even seeing the state in this regard. The majority of people are doing it THIS way because of the stigma of having a state issued V.I.N. that devalues their car for resale. Basically the same as someone reboding any type of car that complete new bodies are not available for. The bottom line is that all of this is going on constantly.

 

[chrisd]

..... The bottom line is that all of this is going on constantly.

The real bottom line is ... Is it right?

 

[696pack]

The real bottom line is ... Is it right?

And that is why it is a never ending arguement and hence my post early in this thread that addresses both views on all of it. Some think it is a form of restoration and others believe even when legal it is unethical. Some feel that it is OK if disclosed, but it is unlikely that will happen in most cases simply because it then becomes a point of negoiation for the sales price. It comes down to money in all cases or NO ONE would be concerned about it. It is a cheaper, better way to "restore" the original car than repairing a wrecked, twisted, rusted, car but some don't consider it the "correct" way to "restore" a car.
The arguement will never end and you will never see the law make a determination of how much of an original car needs to remain to be considered what "some" thinks it should be in order to be THE original car. The Federal law has already made exceptions for the V.I.N. removal/movement and with all laws and changes in law it has to be legislated and it is not that big a deal in the grand scope of things that it will never get that far. It is simply something that the hobby is going to have to deal with and there will never be complete agreement about it.

 

[Satellite65]

I'm not so sure that this is the place to bring up my dilemma. I don't like to hijack threads but this one seemed to be fitting for what I'm about to bring up. If anyone feels that I should start a new thread regarding my question, please say so.

My problem:

I am presently in the process of putting back together my '65 Satellite. I've owned the car since Jan. '85 when the actual value of the vehicle was probably less that it was worth in scrap metal. What I'm trying to say is that back then, no one would even bother to clone this car. It is a Satellite, all the trim holes and brackets for Sat only stuff (console, exterior trim, etc.) is all there and no appearance of modifications are present.

When I first disassembled the vehicle many years ago, I accidentally misplaced the fender tag. It's gone. In addition, a previous owner decided that the best place to put one of the pin switches for an alarm system would be right through the VIN tag, which I still have although it was removed for painting the door jambs. I also have the broadcast sheet for the car. It's faded but legible.

Is this a major problem? The car has had it's drivetrain modified (originally a 273 car, now a 440) and I'm not trying to pass the car off as something it's not although I would like to be able to prove that it is in fact a Satellite and not a cloned Belvedere when and if the time comes to sell.

Does anyone reproduce fender tags and if so, what documentation is required to get a new one? I would also like to replace the butchered VIN tag but I don't have my hopes up too high on that one.

 

[696pack]

Yes, FTs are available repo and without any type of documentation.
Yes, in your case the V.I.N. tag is available in an exact reproduction, since you have the original and have the title in your name. You would have to surrender your original V.I.N. plate for replacement and likely provide a state form showing the car had been inspected with the V.I.N. plate inplace by a state offical.
However, your particular cars value now and in the future is likely not going to be such that any of this is going to be an issue for any buyer. If it were an original 65 Hemi, 426 wedge, or 383-4 car it maybe a different story. The facts are that your car is a modifed 273 car and you are not trying to pass it off as anything else.
Personally I would not spend the money to have to two tags reproduced for your car.

 

[Satellite65]

Thanks for the reply.

I know the car's just a 'mutt' and not of any significant value but it still pisses me off a bit. What's worse is that while scrounging around in my basement this afternoon I ran across the fender tag from a Belvedere that I parted out in the early '90s. Why I bothered to save it is beyond me.

Who makes the repro fender and VIN tags? You're probably correct in the sense that it's not worth the expense but I'd like to check it out anyway.

Steve

 

[696pack]

Thanks for the reply.

I know the car's just a 'mutt' and not of any significant value but it still pisses me off a bit. What's worse is that while scrounging around in my basement this afternoon I ran across the fender tag from a Belvedere that I parted out in the early '90s. Why I bothered to save it is beyond me.

Who makes the repro fender and VIN tags? You're probably correct in the sense that it's not worth the expense but I'd like to check it out anyway.

Steve

Three different companies make the FTs, AG Backeast, Datatags.com and I don't recall the other. AG Backeast makes the V.I.N. tags and follows the law completely but does not advertise the service. I found him 20 years ago after much investigation for a new V.I.N. and color/trim tag for a Corvette I had stolen and recovered with the tags ripped off the car but still with it when the police recovered the car.

 

[S.I. Coronet]

I think the VIN is the car.
And if it and all the matching parts are on a different body i would buy it,
But if the VIN and engine don't match who cares if the car is the right body or not, it isn't worth much more than a 318 car to me.

 

[chrisd]

... for a Corvette I had stolen and recovered with the tags ripped off the car but still with it when the police recovered the car.

Had to reread this to see that you didn't steal the Corvette. LOL
Anyhow, I'm done discussing the issue. I've learned alot that I didn't know about the other sides opinion. My opinion hasn't changed and won't. So, it's pretty much buyer beware. I guess the next thread should be .... "How can I tell if I'm really getting what I think I'm buying" Did I miss this thread too or do we have a taker?