To rebody or not to rebody

[426HemiCharger]

Had to reread this to see that you didn't steal the Corvette. LOL
Anyhow, I'm done discussing the issue. I've learned alot that I didn't know about the other sides opinion. My opinion hasn't changed and won't. So, it's pretty much buyer beware. I guess the next thread should be .... "How can I tell if I'm really getting what I think I'm buying" Did I miss this thread too or do we have a taker?

Funny how the english language is, to phrase it better would be "for a corvette that was stolen from me"

:idea1:
These are all good points especially the one about is it right. IMHO: it is totally dependent on the standards of a person and what he or she personally believes, it is really a question of morality.

 

[TruBee]

It's funny, but experiences with "tag jobs" (re-vin'ed cars) and the like forced me to hunt a factory warranty replacement block (no vin stamp) when seeking a block for my build. Let me explain. In the late eighties, I purchased a modified 400 tri-power Trans-Am. This car was purchased by me at an FBI auction in New Jersey. The car was sold to me without a VIN at all! The car was seized in a major chop shop/export ring sting. The FBI gave me a set of papers, which allowed me to schedule an appointment to have my car re-vin'ed by New York State. I paid the fee and scheduled the appointment. NYS inspected the car and frame for the "confidential vin numbers". Upon passing, NYS affixed a 2x4 sticker on my driver side door jamb with my "new" vin. NY-***** was the new vin for my car. The spot on the dash for it, remained an open slot. I was later stopped in Indiana with the car. Upon looking for the vin number, the trooper became startled and demanded to know where's the vin? I tried to explain to him the process that I and the car went through, but to no avail. He confiscated the car and impounded it, there right there at 3:00 am on I-80. Indiana did their own inspection (which took three weeks), and determined that the driver's door was off of a reported stolen car years earliert (this door came with the car from the FBI auction). So I asked, what do I do? Remove the door and leave it? No they wanted to charge me with possession of stolen property and keep the whole car! Well, almost a year of outdoor storage later, and after intervention from the FBI was the car released to me. But seeing how it was "stored" in a private yard, I had to pay storage fees! Now how does this affect me today, you ask? Well, keep in mind vin blocks contain vin numbers. Imagine putting 10k into a motor build using a block from a stolen car? And this being discovered down the road somewhere? At a show, a rally, or the resale? Hence, my warning to you guys. Those rebodied cars might be a masked stolen car/parts! So, if you guys support rebodied cars, you just might be supporting the thieves.

 

[696pack]

It's funny, but experiences with "tag jobs" (re-vin'ed cars) and the like forced me to hunt a factory warranty replacement block (no vin stamp) when seeking a block for my build. Let me explain. In the late eighties, I purchased a modified 400 tri-power Trans-Am. This car was purchased by me at an FBI auction in New Jersey. The car was sold to me without a VIN at all! The car was seized in a major chop shop/export ring sting. The FBI gave me a set of papers, which allowed me to schedule an appointment to have my car re-vin'ed by New York State. I paid the fee and scheduled the appointment. NYS inspected the car and frame for the "confidential vin numbers". Upon passing, NYS affixed a 2x4 sticker on my driver side door jamb with my "new" vin. NY-***** was the new vin for my car. The spot on the dash for it, remained an open slot. I was later stopped in Indiana with the car. Upon looking for the vin number, the trooper became startled and demanded to know where's the vin? I tried to explain to him the process that I and the car went through, but to no avail. He confiscated the car and impounded it, there right there at 3:00 am on I-80. Indiana did their own inspection (which took three weeks), and determined that the driver's door was off of a reported stolen car years earliert (this door came with the car from the FBI auction). So I asked, what do I do? Remove the door and leave it? No they wanted to charge me with possession of stolen property and keep the whole car! Well, almost a year of outdoor storage later, and after intervention from the FBI was the car released to me. But seeing how it was "stored" in a private yard, I had to pay storage fees! Now how does this affect me today, you ask? Well, keep in mind vin blocks contain vin numbers. Imagine putting 10k into a motor build using a block from a stolen car? And this being discovered down the road somewhere? At a show, a rally, or the resale? Hence, my warning to you guys. Those rebodied cars might be a masked stolen car/parts! So, if you guys support rebodied cars, you just might be supporting the thieves.

YES, tnis CAN be true. This in fact was the reason for hidden numbers on cars because prior to them the theives/chopshops were doing V.I.N. switches and get away with it most of the time once it was done and the other evidence was gone. At that point it was hard to prove any wrong doing.

However, what we are discussing here now is reboding cars for restoration RATHER than restoring in what many believe to be a "traditional" type restoration. If people have read this thread in it's entirety you will find that it has been said that this type of rebody we are speaking of is something that both cars are legally owned by the same owner and there are no stolen parts involved.

Buyers always have to leary of an older put-to-gather stolen car rearing it's ugly head. This is why when looking at one of OUR cars we need to be looking at everthing there is to prove out the car. Title matching V.I.N. plate, correct rivets, if the model has hidden numbers matching the V.I.N., if they match the S.O. number you have to find something like the fender tag or BS that will tie the V.I.N. and S.O. togather. If the engine/trans has I.D. numbers on it they should be checked as well. What many of use don't think about is if the engine in the car is from another car and IT happened to have previously been part of a stolen car, IT could someday be confiscated. It is called "buyer beware." Yes, there certainly may still be an unrecovered thieft out there that has yet to be discovered and you don't want to be on the wrong side of it. This thread is really not about this though. The simple thing to remember is that if things don't add up, such as an engine with a V.I.N. that is SUPPOSED to match the cars but doesn't, take the numbers off of the engine, determine the model year of the engine, call the state police, tell them you are looking to purchase a car and explain the situation with the engine partial V.I.N. and ask if it matches any stolen car report for that model year.

The GOAL of someone doing a "rebody restoration" is not to cover up a stolen car, it is to restore the car with no evidence of the prior condition just as it is for a "traditional restoration."

 

[426HemiCharger]

This is true, in MCG a guy got a 1969 Hemi Coronet R/T and he wanted to pay lower insurance rates and he went and swapped tags with a 383 Superbee, the owner was confused because the car was lke this from the time he could remember. His father, who swapped the numbers neglected to check under the trunk weatherstripping for those numbers and the man who bought it from the son was also confused. I'm personally not sure of the legallity of this but this is an example where I can see that logic prevailing.

Again as stated this is if a cars tag were to get spliced onto a new body and both were owned by the same person.

 

[696pack]

This is true, in MCG a guy got a 1969 Hemi Coronet R/T and he wanted to pay lower insurance rates and he went and swapped tags with a 383 Superbee, the owner was confused because the car was lke this from the time he could remember. His father, who swapped the numbers neglected to check under the trunk weatherstripping for those numbers and the man who bought it from the son was also confused. I'm personally not sure of the legallity of this but this is an example where I can see that logic prevailing.

Again as stated this is if a cars tag were to get spliced onto a new body and both were owned by the same person.

That car was discussed at length long ago on Moparts. It is the reverse of what people think of regarding rebodies as with it the reason for the V.I.N. swap had nothing to due with the VALUE of the car when done but rather to defraud the insurance company for a rating point of view. If the owner(s) still had the original title or was able to apply for a duplicale/lost title (remember, if the owner removed the V.I.N. and replaced it with a salvage yard V.I.N. plate and title this means there is still a title in state title history that has gone no where) then that paperwork along with other support history such as a BS, FT, hidden numbers, ans a state inspection would be grounds for getting the correct reproduction V.I.N. tag. The owner would certainly want to have the old 383 REPLACEMENT V.I.N. removed before they involved the state officials to eliminate another can of worms that it would likely open.
HOWEVER, as I remember, that car had other issues surrounding this senario that was not as straight forward as it sounds here.

 

[426HemiCharger]

Yes that is what I concluded aswell from the article. My point was regardless, that it may cause some confusion.

 

[mtdrv]

Its illegal in Georgia to rebody a car, however most folks still do it.

 

[[email protected]]

i had a 1972 Honda 350cc motorcycle that i bought brand new from a Honda dealer had the bike for two months and developed a engine miss . the dealer found the problem and stated i needed a new frame because there was a crack in the fame that caused a electrical short to the charging system . buy this time i had dressed up the bike with after market parts to improve on the looks. Honda said that i voided my warranty and they would not replace the frame but!!!! they would sell me a new frame.
thats when the problem started after i was done with the bike and I got stopped by chp and there was no traditional type of vin on the bike . i had to take my receipt for the new frame and have the bike renumbered by DMV . all parts were correct for the bike
but the frame made it a new vehicle and the title has to show as salvage. i am retired from California DMV . cut and dry you can not move a vin if the part the vin is attached to is destroyed that vin is junk//

 

[TruBee]

"cut and dry you can not move a vin if the part the vin is attached to is destroyed that vin is junk"


Makes sense to me!

 

[696pack]

i had a 1972 Honda 350cc motorcycle that i bought brand new from a Honda dealer had the bike for two months and developed a engine miss . the dealer found the problem and stated i needed a new frame because there was a crack in the fame that caused a electrical short to the charging system . buy this time i had dressed up the bike with after market parts to improve on the looks. Honda said that i voided my warranty and they would not replace the frame but!!!! they would sell me a new frame.
thats when the problem started after i was done with the bike and I got stopped by chp and there was no traditional type of vin on the bike . i had to take my receipt for the new frame and have the bike renumbered by DMV . all parts were correct for the bike
but the frame made it a new vehicle and the title has to show as salvage. i am retired from California DMV . cut and dry you can not move a vin if the part the vin is attached to is destroyed that vin is junk//

That statement may be correct for California but as I stated much earlier in this thread that is not correct for the Federal law and for many other states. Most states follow the Fed. law but some have stricter interpetations of it. The law was created to thwart "chop shops." It still goes on in the privacy of individual garages when people own two cars legally and one is going to the scrap yard, the majority of the time the less valuable car is going no matter how it is accomplished

 

[[email protected]]

its still vehicle fraud to reinstall a previously used vin on a different vehicle/ the feds don't care until somebody gets burned with a non disclosed vin change and has a lot of money wasted on recycled junk.

 

[S.I. Coronet]

I will not buy a car that doesn't have a title or the title and vin doesn't match.
Unless im parting it out.
I see alot of cars for sale that have a "bill of sale", forget it unless its out of a state that doesn't title old cars but I won't buy it.

 

[Satellite65]

New York State doesn't title cars built prior to '73. Bill of sale and a signed registration is all you need.

 

[[email protected]]

this is why our cars are so valuable if it as manufactured and and numbers correct . i don't have a problem with building a car from parts that are not stolen and have sales documents of ownership/but it is a new vehicle and has to have its own one of a kind vin number identifying it for what it is//// dynacorn has body kits that look like the year and model that the original cars are supposed to look like the cars/. in California you will register them as such but the manufacture company will have to produce a certificate of manufacture or origin so the new owner can apply for a state assigned vin and title properly describing vehicle type and value before its allowed to be driven on any roadway. and be certified for lights and brakes and smog devices install with the original date of manufacture of the year that the vehicle represents. and then you have a old new manufactured car that is at a value at todays prices of production. all states tax cars at the current value of manufacturing that vehicle.

 

[Satellite65]

You know, years ago, back in the early/mid '80s none of this was considered a problem. There was a guy around here that specialized in Mustang/T-bird parts. On hooks up on the wall behind his counter were vin tags, each with a set of keys and a registration card. He'd sell you everything else you needed to build your very own 'stang and I don't recall anyone having any issues with it.

Of coarse, that was before these cars were worth more than the sum of their parts. Perhaps that has something to do with it?

 

[696pack]

its still vehicle fraud to reinstall a previously used vin on a different vehicle/ the feds don't care until somebody gets burned with a non disclosed vin change and has a lot of money wasted on recycled junk.

You are confusing two seperate issues here.

1. If you READ the Federal law on this you will see that it is perfectly legal provided you own both cars involved and there are no stolen parts involved.

2. "Gets burned with a non disclosed vin change and has a lot of money wasted on recycled junk"
That would be a civil trial matter and has nothing to do with the Fed. law regarding the V.I.N. movement as long as it was done per #1 above. Also, you are considering this "recycled junk" where others consider that they are getting a better car than saving a small peice of the unibody that still has the V.I.N. attached to that original peice and is possibly hung togather with many other donor cars, repo sheet metal, and done in some guys back yard with no consideration for original factory body measurements with a car that may fold up in a minor collision and kill someone.

You have to look at both sides of the arguement and consider all of the pluses and minuses. If you haven't already read my original post on page one.

 

[63RedFury]

If your son "Robert" was to die and you was to adopt another son "John".Then you was to use "Roberts" birth certificate for "John" would that now make "John'' "Robert"?,No it would not.Taking tags and moving them from one car to the other is just wrong...

 

[Rolling Thunder]

On a side note but kinda on track...I remember years ago reading about a hemi superbee I believe that a guy bought new and revin'd it into a plain low model coronet or something like that for insurance purposes...anyone remember this? He owed both cars if I remember correctly.

 

[69 Runner]

this is why you read the entire thread before posting lol

 

[Rolling Thunder]

this is why you read the entire thread before posting lol

LOL...just a few lines above also. I knew I read it someplace:icon_axe: