Trashing front tires... It's getting expensive!!

[Cranky]

2 sets of tires in 1,200 miles!!

Your first post says 12k miles. If you're going through 2 sets in 1200 miles, I would think you could see the alignment problem.....

 

[747mopar]

I had a guy bring me a car that was doing the same thing, It turned out to be the lower control arm bushings.
He said they were tight but we had a way of checking them with a big bar. If you stand in front of the car, say 100 ft away and have it drive to you you can see it toe out, as it backs up it will toe in and it will be very obvious.

Been there, play at certain points can be hard to detect under a loaded suspension.

 

[747mopar]

Your first post says 12k miles. If you're going through 2 sets in 1200 miles, I would think you could see the alignment problem.....

Sorry, 2 sets in 12,000 miles... left out a zero. Fixed it

 

[747mopar]

I went through two set of front tires driving less than 2000 miles on both sets. First pair wore out the outside edges to the cords, second pair wore out the inside edges.

After the first set wore out prematurely, an alignment/tire shop mentioned nothing about finding worn part but sold me two new tires. After the new pair started to wear rapindly, a second alignment shop said the driver's lower ball joint was a "little loose" but only offered a re-alignment and did not replace any parts. When I noticed the second set of tires continued to wear rapidly, a third shop told me the driver's side lower ball joint was so loose it was about to self-destruct. The third shop replaced the worn parts (the first two shops failed to repair) and sold me the second pair of new front tires. So far, so good.

I suppose it could be that but holy cow they're new Moog ball joints, the whole entire suspension front to back including the steering only has 12,000 miles on it.

 

[Cranky]

Lower ball joints are pretty easy to check.....but the uppers are not so easy. Put a floor jack under the lower control arm close to the tire and jack up the tire about an inch off the ground. With a long bar (longer is easier) and a 2x4 placed just in front of the tire, take the bar and try to pick up the tire using the 2x4 block as a pivot point. If you see any movement in the ball joint/knuckle vs the LCA, then the ball joint is worn. Just a tiny bit of play is usually acceptable but anything more than 1/16" and I pull them off.

 

[Cranky]

Sorry, 2 sets in 12,000 miles.

Lowering doesn't increase negative camber but usually increases positive camber and increases more toe in so if anything, it should induce wear on the out sides of the tires but 1" really isn't going to cause quick wearing. I used to make changes and then watch the tires (unless it drove bad) and never had a problem with a 1" difference. And I've never had 'any old Dodge' drive like crap so long as the front end was good and the alignment was right. Need to stay away from that AH lol

 

[747mopar]

Lowering doesn't increase negative camber but usually increases positive camber and increases more toe in so if anything, it should induce wear on the out sides of the tires but 1" really isn't going to cause quick wearing. I used to make changes and then watch the tires (unless it drove bad) and never had a problem with a 1" difference. And I've never had 'any old Dodge' drive like crap so long as the front end was good and the alignment was right. Need to stay away from that AH lol

With what your telling me I'm getting more confident that the problem is the technician!

 

[Cranky]

With what your telling me I'm getting more confident that the problem is the technician!

Also, the wider the tire, the more difference it'll make. My youngest daughter just went through a set of new front tires on her PT (Pitiful Thing) and it cost her since hers is a GT Turbo with the 17" wheels and she neglected to pay attention to her car. Wore em out to the cords in no time....and I'm the one that noticed it. The alignment shop didn't get the settings right after replacing some front end parts. Man, she knows better than to neglect her car but she took their word and drove it trusting them. She said it drove ok to her but it was driving like crap to me. I do a walk around with all of my cars to look at the tires at every fill up....well, maybe not every one but every other at least. I trust no one that works on my junk and especially alignment shops!

 

[747mopar]

Also, the wider the tire, the more difference it'll make. My youngest daughter just went through a set of new front tires on her PT (Pitiful Thing) and it cost her since hers is a GT Turbo with the 17" wheels and she neglected to pay attention to her car. Wore em out to the cords in no time....and I'm the one that noticed it. The alignment shop didn't get the settings right after replacing some front end parts. Man, she knows better than to neglect her car but she took their word and drove it trusting them. She said it drove ok to her but it was driving like crap to me. I do a walk around with all of my cars to look at the tires at every fill up....well, maybe not every one but every other at least. I trust no one that works on my junk and especially alignment shops!

Your making feel bad... neglecting my car.

 

[747mopar]

Got lucky with my search, first place I called just happened to be the go too shop for some top notch restoration shops around here. Sounded very competent and specializes in classics.

 

[Cranky]

Your making feel bad... neglecting my car.

Oh man.....lol. Didn't even mean to do that! Hey, I've been down that same road and it started happening when I was a teen. My first foray was when I tried to get my car safety inspected and the tech said my steering wheel was too small in diameter. What??? Yeah, it had a small diameter aftermarket wheel on the car and asked him so please show me where it said that in a book and he started giving me a ration of crap. About that same time, a DPS officer drove up and well, I snagged him and told him what was happening. He then went and looked at my car and then went straight into the office. Next thing I know, my car has a new inspection sticker on it lol. Man, I've heard all kinds of crap over the years and now that I'm over 60, it's starting all over again. Bastards......seems to be, young people and old people are stooooopid according to some of the shops out there. It's just nuts.

 

[khryslerkid]

Got lucky with my search, first place I called just happened to be the go too shop for some top notch restoration shops around here. Sounded very competent and specializes in classics.

See if they will let you watch.

I had a Dakota that needed an alignment. Hung around outside where I could keep an eye on the guy. About halfway through the alignment he started cussing and throwing tools. He finally finished and I asked him what was the problem. He said nothing. Leaving the garage, I could feel something wasn't right and went right back. Then he stated that every time he went to tighten the upper control arm it would throw it back out of alignment. I said why didn't you get someone to help you hold it in place, like useing a bar, as you tighten it? He put it back on the rack and did it right.

Hang around when they work on it. A lot of times you can tell if they know what they're doing or not.

 

[Cranky]

I like to 'watch'!!! And no, not going to post any **** vids lol

 

[747mopar]

See if they will let you watch.

I had a Dakota that needed an alignment. Hung around outside where I could keep an eye on the guy. About halfway through the alignment he started cussing and throwing tools. He finally finished and I asked him what was the problem. He said nothing. Leaving the garage, I could feel something wasn't right and went right back. Then he stated that every time he went to tighten the upper control arm it would throw it back out of alignment. I said why didn't you get someone to help you hold it in place, like useing a bar, as you tighten it? He put it back on the rack and did it right.

Hang around when they work on it. A lot of times you can tell if they know what they're doing or not.

I did both times, he went thru the procedure with no issues... Maybe his eye sight is failing lol.

 

[oldbee]

See if they will let you watch.

I had a Dakota that needed an alignment. Hung around outside where I could keep an eye on the guy. About halfway through the alignment he started cussing and throwing tools. He finally finished and I asked him what was the problem. He said nothing. Leaving the garage, I could feel something wasn't right and went right back. Then he stated that every time he went to tighten the upper control arm it would throw it back out of alignment. I said why didn't you get someone to help you hold it in place, like useing a bar, as you tighten it? He put it back on the rack and did it right.

Hang around when they work on it. A lot of times you can tell if they know what they're doing or not.

When I got mine done last year, it was the 2nd shop. I talked to the tech before it happened and he said "no problem", I brought specs with me for him; I didn't watch but he was in his late 50's(?,!). He came out and said "can I go for a test-drive?" Sure, he was smiling the whole time! ( he did tell me that either caster/camber would be a little off from spec,probably from body shift(?) on one side) but he liked it. Since then,no problems & steers great. I'm not a frt.end alignment guru, so his explanation sounded good to me. IMHO u can't expect anybody under '30' to know what's going on with these old things.

 

[ckessel]

Shops that do the low buck alignments are good to stay away from. The tech only gets a certain amount of time to get the job done and if he goes over, he's loosing money and probably getting bitched at by the shop owner for being slow. Newer cars don't get as involved as the old stuff for settings unless there is damage somewhere. A shop that deals with the restoration or even race stuff/autocross is a better bet. If the car has had numerous parts replaced, older cars where qc/fit were sketchy, tighter specs requested etc take more time to set properly and of course cost more to do. Along with the upper arm and toe adjustments, did you add in adjustable strut rods and/or adjustable upper arms? These add to the mix and require more time to get set. Need to add the thrust angle shims? Same thing, more time and as you know, time costs money.

 

[Bobzilla]

Any updates?

 

[WileE]

When leaving the alignment shop, you should know EXACTLY what the specs are how he set it up. Never assume, especially these days, they know what they're doing. It's best to go in & tell the tech exactly what the specs YOU want, and see the print out before you pay & leave.

 

[747mopar]

Any updates?

The weather here has been everywhere from 6" of snow to absolute downpours so it hasn't left the garage. Whenever I do take it in I'll have him provide the before and after specs. For now I need to scrounge up cash for new tires lol.

 

[747mopar]

When leaving the alignment shop, you should know EXACTLY what the specs are how he set it up. Never assume, especially these days, they know what they're doing. It's best to go in & tell the tech exactly what the specs YOU want, and see the print out before you pay & leave.

I'm guilty of leaving the alignments to the pros but now I know they aren't all pros. Lesson learned.