Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

Congrats!
How does the pedal feel? Can you feel the points of the clutch starting to engage and disengage
at all?

A couple of people stated that the pedal will feel like nothing is there but I disagree. You feel the resistance but it is a lot easier than I recall there being in my FrankenDuster with a Ram clutch and the 833.

I have heard some people say that their car feels totally different after the swap. I can say that I agree.

There are fewer vibrations, fewer rattles. Everything seems smoother. Maybe some of that is due to my incorrect 727 trans crossmember mount and angle. Maybe the new transmission is just tight and precise. The automatic shifter had original linkage and bushings so it was a bit sloppy and sometimes rattled a bit.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Starting on a hill, line lock a great helper.

 

[dadsbee]

Starting on a hill, line lock a great helper.

The only thing I liked about the Wife's '64 Vette was the hand operated E brake!!

 

[Kern Dog]

2800 rpms at 60.
3000 rpms at 65.
3200 rpms at 70.

The above was the rpms with the automatic in drive, 3rd gear at speed.

After I recalibrated the speedometer, I went out a bit further and measured the rpms again but in 5th, a .64 overdrive. This takes the 3.55 to a 2.27 final drive. The rpms are approximate but pretty close.
1650 rpms @60.
1800 rpms @65.
1975-2000 rpms @ 70.
Yeah....what a HUGE change!

I am considering a swap to the 3.91 gear I have on the shelf. The final drive will change from 2.27 to 2.50. Recalibrating the speedometer is really easy and is done electronically.

 

[pnora]

The lever is closer to the support now.

View attachment 1072490 View attachment 1072491

Still 1 1/4" though.

View attachment 1072492



I do appreciate the advice but to do it your way, the clutch pedal would be up much further to the point of being silly. The pedal gets enough stroke now so I'll call it good where it is now. The clutch engages midway through the travel as it is currently.

I will measure my off the new carpet to pedal tomorrow for you to compare..............................................

 

[Kern Dog]

Why for the sake of appearance? It's supposed to be down there so you can pivot your toes off the go pedal and onto the brake pedal without lifting your heel and vis versa! Think starting on a hill...

This is an interesting point. I don't live near any steep hills but your point does make sense. I don't mind a small misalignment between the pedals. I may get used to this and not even care about the difference, who knows.
The car does feel different. Not that it was a POS before, but the way it just cruises at speed is so different. The gates of the Tremec are so close. My last manual trans vehicle was my 75 Power Wagon. I changed it to a 727 in 2016 because I thought I might need the Wife to drive it to help me push cars around in the back yard. I sold off the trans and other stuff from it and wonder if I should have just kept it. I'm going to teach the Wife to drive this car. 50 years old and she has only driven a few stick shift cars well over 25 years ago.

 

[watermelon]

good stuff above

for myself...i adjusted clutch pedal to match the brake pedal height and was good to go...no issues...clutch needs very little pedal movement to work

i don’t think you need to put too much energy into the bump stop. the clutch is so easy you’ll find there is no need to mash then full-stroke release...even when doing some spirited/angry driving.


watermelon

 

[Ray70Chrg]

Kern Dog, been following your adventure all along. Congratulations on doing a great job and thanks for taking us along for the ride.

 

[Kern Dog]

I did adjust the brake light switch so they don't stay ON all the time.
The RH reverse light needs to be made functional.
The console lights aren't lighting up even though I did connect the wire plug.
The RH tailpipe hanger broke again. That thing has broken numerous times while the LH never has. That is a mystery to me.
I had the overflow jug out and when I put it back in, it was wedged against the radiator flange....and it wore a hole in it. Coming back home, I smelled anti-freeze. It is from a Dodge Caravan or some Mopar minivan so a replacement won't be hard to find.
I need to make a punch list of the small details to address.

 

[pnora]

Ok I get this. Going back to the Young and the restless or the edge of Night.

 

[Kern Dog]

Kern Dog, been following your adventure all along. Congratulations on doing a great job and thanks for taking us along for the ride.

Thank you, Ray. It has been a fun journey.
To those contemplating something like this: Be smart and expect to spend money on UNforseen issues. It is tempting to make additional changes when the car is torn this far apart. Here is a list of the expenses that I had with the project.

* SST TKO-600 5 speed Tremec kit including transmission, Bellhousing, Pistol Grip lever, hydraulic throwout bearing, transmission mount and crossmember, clutch, pressure plate and flywheel, drive shaft and fluids......
$5978.
* Used center console top plates including an additional console door since the first set came with a door with broken mounting studs.
$280
* Harbor Freight blast cabinet and 2 bags of sand to sandblast the console parts and oil pan:
$260
* Paint to refinish console parts....? I bought basecoat black and matte clear but barely used any. I'll use the rest on other projects so I'm not going to include this in the total.
* JB weld for console top plate mods, vinyl contact paper for console center section:
$25
* Flywheel machine work....The center hole had to be machined oversize to clear the improperly machined hub on my Chinese crankshaft:
$60
*Dial indicator, one set .007 offset dowels, one set .014 dowels.
$140
* Carpet with mass backing:
$200
* UP-stop bumper and shipping...Oddly, I found the one included with the Silver Sport kit.
$12
* Windage tray, 2 oil pan gaskets, valve cover gaskets, valley pan and intake gaskets:
$220
*Racing oil:
$72.
*Fan belts, 4.
$70
* Engine and header paint:
*15
Grand total.....
$ 7312.
Now, this could have been done a bit cheaper if a few things were different. As I stated, unforeseen things do happen. The $60 on the flywheel machine work is something that shouldn't have happened. A stock crank or a properly machined aftermarket crank would have allowed me to skip that expense.
The console parts....I could have modified my original stuff but I set them aside for the other car, Jigsaw. I could have left the console parts and modifications off of this list. That stuff added up to $565.
I didn't have to replace the carpet but I wanted to. $200.
The dent in the oil pan gave me the excuse to pull the pan to repair. Thankfully, it helped me to discover the improper fitment of the plastic windage tray to the "shorter than stock" Milodon pan. $270 could have been saved if the pan sealed and wasn't dented.

 

[HawkRod]

Kern,

I am just a little concerned with your clutch, especially given some of the concerns with travel and how high it sits. Forgive me if this was mentioned and/or I forgot/missed it. You need to make sure the throwout bearing is not touching the clutch when it is fully released. If it is, then you will tear up your throwout bearing in short order.

If you have checked this already, then forgive my post and move on with my congratulations for a job well done. If you haven't, please do to be sure. Otherwise you risk needing to pull the tranny soon to replace a throwout bearing.

 

[Kern Dog]

You think the pedal needs to be higher?
If they are making contact, wouldn't the clutch be slipping? I can pull the steel clutch cover and have the wife operate the pedal to see.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Kern,

I am just a little concerned with your clutch, especially given some of the concerns with travel and how high it sits. Forgive me if this was mentioned and/or I forgot/missed it. You need to make sure the throwout bearing is not touching the clutch when it is fully released. If it is, then you will tear up your throwout bearing in short order.

If you have checked this already, then forgive my post and move on with my congratulations for a job well done. If you haven't, please do to be sure. Otherwise you risk needing to pull the tranny soon to replace a throwout bearing.

Actually all modern cars keep the T/O bearing in light contact with the clutch fingers at all times... Some of the aftermarket hydraulic clutches are designed the same way... Others still need clearance but a blanket statement is wrong...

 

[HawkRod]

You think the pedal needs to be higher?
If they are making contact, wouldn't the clutch be slipping? I can pull the steel clutch cover and have the wife operate the pedal to see.
View attachment 1072517

So forgetting for a moment about 1 Wild R/T's (whom I respect a lot, by the way) post below, clutches I am familiar with need the throwout bearing to not touch the clutch. This has nothing to do with a slipping clutch. This ensures that when you are not using the clutch that the throwout bearing is not constantly turning and wearing. It only turns and engages once you push the pedal a little bit (by the way, this is why you shouldn't rest your foot on the clutch pedal when driving and not clutching). As you push the clutch pedal, it will engage first the throwout bearing that will then start pushing in the clutch and disengaging it from the flywheel.

Actually all modern cars keep the T/O bearing in light contact with the clutch fingers at all times... Some of the aftermarket hydraulic clutches are designed the same way... Others still need clearance but a blanket statement is wrong...

OK. I am not familiar with these. On our old cars what I said is appropriate. I admit that I do not know what Kern's new transmission and hydraulic clutch requires.

Kern, I guess the bottom line is you should check the manufacturer and be sure it is set as required. It is cheap insurance now to ensure trouble free operation!

Hawk

 

[moparedtn]

So are you folks telling us the original specified air gap between throwout bearing and clutch fingers
doesn't apply if a hydraulic setup is installed?

 

[moparedtn]

So forgetting for a moment about 1 Wild R/T's (whom I respect a lot, by the way) post below, clutches I am familiar with need the throwout bearing to not touch the clutch. This has nothing to do with a slipping clutch. This ensures that when you are not using the clutch that the throwout bearing is not constantly turning and wearing. It only turns and engages once you push the pedal a little bit (by the way, this is why you shouldn't rest your foot on the clutch pedal when driving and not clutching). As you push the clutch pedal, it will engage first the throwout bearing that will then start pushing in the clutch and disengaging it from the flywheel.


OK. I am not familiar with these. On our old cars what I said is appropriate. I admit that I do not know what Kern's new transmission and hydraulic clutch requires.

Kern, I guess the bottom line is you should check the manufacturer and be sure it is set as required. It is cheap insurance now to ensure trouble free operation!

Hawk

Sorry Hawk, I didn't mean to trample.

 

[Kern Dog]

@hsorman
It has been a few weeks since I set up the throwout bearing but.....

The instructions show to measure the space between the edge of the bellhousing/transmission face....

...and the clutch fingers. Take this number and hang onto it.

Then you compress the throwout bearing and measure the height it is from the face of the transmission where it meets the bell...

The depth to the clutch fingers was 3 7/16" and the height of the throwout bearing was 3 5/16". This means that the throwout bearing is compressed for all but 1/8". Pressing the pedal sends fluid to it causing it to expand.

 

[watermelon]

the hydraulic bearing supplied in this kit is designed to be in contact with pressure plate fingers and will spin.

https://shiftsst.com/pub/media/wysi...210_Universal_Mount_Hydraulic_Manual_Rev0.pdf

Kern - when we getting vids?


watermelon

 

[Kern Dog]

Kern - when we getting vids?

I can get the Wife to shoot some video. I have a YouTube account, I just haven't posted any videos there.