Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

I started to bleed the clutch but wasn't having any luck.

There are YouTube videos showing how to do it and I've seen some with dudes doing it by themselves with a bottle like you see here. I did 4 sessions of slow strokes, (4 strokes at a time) and the pedal still feels soft. I don't know what it is supposed to feel like though. I know that most traditional mechanical clutch cars feel somewhat stiff almost like the brake pedal in a car with manual brakes.
I'll get the Wife to assist tomorrow.

The brake lights are staying on. Surely the brake light switch just needs an adjustment.

 

[pnora]

It will feel like nothing is there. Almost zero effort. Bleed it this way. 1. Fill the reservoir full with DOT 4 brake fluid. During the next steps check regularly to makesure that the reservoir does not run out of fluid. If this happens you will have to start theprocess over. 2. Open the bleeder screw to allow air to escape from the system. Give the fluid a few minutes tomake its way down to the bleeder screw, while watching the fluid level in the reservoir andrefilling as necessary. Allow fluid to drip from the bleeder screw into a suitable container. 3. It may be necessary to prime the master cylinder by removing the high pressure hose at themaster cylinder and block the fitting outlet to draw fluid into the cylinder when stroking the pedal.When the cylinder is primed, reattach the pressure line and continue the bleeding procedure.Take care not to spill brake fluid on any painted surfaces. NOTE: On some MOPAR applications, you will need to remove the stud that the original pushrod attached to, and then use our shoulder bolt in that hole. Remove the stud by grinding off the weld and driving it out of the clutch pedal. 15MAM-00201 FORD & MOPAR Hydraulic Manual, RevF 05/09/174. When the drip becomes a steady stream, close the bleeder screw. Refill the fluid reservoir.Open the bleeder screw slightly and have your helper depress the pedal slowly. Close thebleeder as soon as the pedal reaches the floor. Then have your helper slowly release thepedal. Pressing or releasing the pedal too quickly will cause brake fluid to squirt fromthe top of the reservoir. The pedal may need to be manually pulled up from the floor duringthese steps. Repeat this process several times, refilling the reservoir every 3 strokes or so. 5. When the bleeder stops spitting air, close and tighten the bleeder screw. Pump the pedalseveral times to check for proper feel. Repeat the process if the pedal is not firm throughout itstravel, or if it seems that the clutch is not releasing fully. Make sure that the master cylinderpushrod is traveling its full stroke of 1.4” and that the master cylinder is fully extended whenthe clutch pedal returns to its home position (no tension on the pushrod with the clutchpedal all the way up).6

 

[watermelon]

correct...the pedal doesn’t stiffen up like a brake pedal

watermelon

 

[Kern Dog]

It will feel like nothing is there. Almost zero effort. Bleed it this way. 1. Fill the reservoir full with DOT 4 brake fluid. During the next steps check regularly to makesure that the reservoir does not run out of fluid. If this happens you will have to start theprocess over. 2. Open the bleeder screw to allow air to escape from the system. Give the fluid a few minutes tomake its way down to the bleeder screw, while watching the fluid level in the reservoir andrefilling as necessary. Allow fluid to drip from the bleeder screw into a suitable container. 3. It may be necessary to prime the master cylinder by removing the high pressure hose at themaster cylinder and block the fitting outlet to draw fluid into the cylinder when stroking the pedal.When the cylinder is primed, reattach the pressure line and continue the bleeding procedure.Take care not to spill brake fluid on any painted surfaces. NOTE: On some MOPAR applications, you will need to remove the stud that the original pushrod attached to, and then use our shoulder bolt in that hole. Remove the stud by grinding off the weld and driving it out of the clutch pedal. 15MAM-00201 FORD & MOPAR Hydraulic Manual, RevF 05/09/174. When the drip becomes a steady stream, close the bleeder screw. Refill the fluid reservoir.Open the bleeder screw slightly and have your helper depress the pedal slowly. Close thebleeder as soon as the pedal reaches the floor. Then have your helper slowly release thepedal. Pressing or releasing the pedal too quickly will cause brake fluid to squirt fromthe top of the reservoir. The pedal may need to be manually pulled up from the floor duringthese steps. Repeat this process several times, refilling the reservoir every 3 strokes or so. 5. When the bleeder stops spitting air, close and tighten the bleeder screw. Pump the pedalseveral times to check for proper feel. Repeat the process if the pedal is not firm throughout itstravel, or if it seems that the clutch is not releasing fully. Make sure that the master cylinderpushrod is traveling its full stroke of 1.4” and that the master cylinder is fully extended whenthe clutch pedal returns to its home position (no tension on the pushrod with the clutchpedal all the way up).6

This reads almost exactly as the SST instructions.
I was trying to do it myself like I had seen in a few videos. I have had mixed luck doing that with brakes but I thought I'd give it a try anyway. It does feel like a brake pedal with air in the system. I may remove the cover at the bottom of the bellhousing and see if the throwout bearing is moving....OR start the car and see if the clutch disengages.

The back-up lights work, well, at least the left one does. I have no power to the right side. Add that to the short list of things to fix.

 

[pnora]

It will be a marshmallow pedal even with the air out. It does not bleed the way a brake system does. Just follow this step.
When the drip becomes a steady stream, close the bleeder screw. Refill the fluid reservoir.Open the bleeder screw slightly and have your helper depress the pedal slowly. Close thebleeder as soon as the pedal reaches the floor. Then have your helper slowly release thepedal. Pressing or releasing the pedal too quickly will cause brake fluid to squirt fromthe top of the reservoir.

 

[Kern Dog]

Thank you.

 

[pnora]

I had my wife help me and I got the air out in about 10 or 15 pumps. Just crack the bleeder and have her slowly,I mean slowly until it hits the floor. Have her holler when it hits the floor. Make sure she keep it there and tighten the bleeder. Then have her slowly, I mean slowly release the pedal until it comes all the way up. I would do this 3 times and top off the fluid after 3 bleeds. Every time I got a bubble or two. I repeated until no more bubble and gave it 3 more for good measure.

 

[Kern Dog]

I last longer than 10-15 pumps.

 

[Kern Dog]

One of the things remaining to do is to install some type of bumper pad to limit upward travel. The stock "Up-Stop" bumper is tiny.

The gap between the bar welded to the clutch pedal and the under-dash bracket is a LOT bigger.

It is hard to see but there is a gap of about 1 3/4". That little bumper would not even come close. If I adjusted the pushrod to allow the pedal to rise high enough to touch that small Up-Stop bumper, the pedal pad would be almost 2 inches higher off of the floor than the brake pedal.
Either the bar was welded wrong to the clutch pedal or it is something else that I don't understand. I can work with it though...I have these suspension bumpstops I can trim down to fit.

I just need to determine how much travel the pedal needs to function.

 

[moparedtn]

Yeah, that pedal stop arm is way different than stock for whatever reason....

 

[HawkRod]

Below is a thread I started for my car when I built it; I had a similar issue of misaligned pedals. In my case, it was an adjustment of the brake pedal, but I figured I would reference it here FYI. In short, I lengthened my brake pedal rod to bring the brake pedal up higher to match the clutch.

Issue before fixes:

After the fix:

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/brake-pedal-height-issues.93386/

Hawk

 

[pnora]

There is something wrong either the pedal or the link rod. I just bolted it together and adjusted the link. I also used that thin rubber stop.

 

[pnora]

Just adjust the clutch link and forget about the brake pedal for now. Get the clutch to work and you will be fine. The brake pedal height is a issue of its own. The clutch master needs that longer stroke. It will never work the way you have it. Put the stop in and adjust the rod.

 

[joe smith]

Misaligned pedals were normal after disc brakes became popular in the late 60's earley 70's.....

 

[Kern Dog]

B O O M.

It is dusty but it runs, moves, steers and stops.

The clutch bleed went easy once I had help. 6 cycles of press and squirt and all the bubbles were gone. I had the car up on the lift a little so I started it and tried going through the gears. It went into 1st and 3rd but not 2nd or 4th. I suspected that the clutch needed more travel so I spun the "turnbuckle" threaded rod to extend the pedal. Once I raised it up about an inch to 1 1/4", it had plenty enough travel to get all the gears. I drove around the backyard a little to get a feel for it. I haven't driven a manual trans vehicle since 2016 so I expected to stall it a few times but you could almost let the clutch out at idle and not stall this thing. I went for a drive around the neighborhood. The speedometer was WAY off, reading maybe double what it should. I can't believe how tight the gates are. It is very easy to shift from 2nd to 5th. It is also easy to downshift from 5th to reverse! I had several instances where I got the "grxxtzxtx" sound as I tried to get to 4th. I'll get better with some practice.
The clutch pedal is higher than the brake pedal....

 

[pnora]

Adjust that turnbuckle so the pedal has full stroke. A hydraulic clutch needs the fluid transfer to the slave. Forget about the lower brake pedal. Get that clutch so the pedal hits on that thin stop.

 

[Kern Dog]

The lever is closer to the support now.

Still 1 1/4" though.

Just adjust the clutch link and forget about the brake pedal for now. Get the clutch to work and you will be fine. The brake pedal height is a issue of its own. The clutch master needs that longer stroke. It will never work the way you have it. Put the stop in and adjust the rod.

I do appreciate the advice but to do it your way, the clutch pedal would be up much further to the point of being silly. The pedal gets enough stroke now so I'll call it good where it is now. The clutch engages midway through the travel as it is currently.

 

[moparedtn]

Congrats!
How does the pedal feel? Can you feel the points of the clutch starting to engage and disengage
at all?

 

[Kern Dog]

As Hawk mentioned in post #591, I may extend the brake pedal for the sake of appearance.
I have a booster and bracket setup from a 1975 Dart so the parts are a bit different from a stock '70 Charger or any B body for that matter.
It looks like this:

The booster and master cylinder stand off and up from the firewall as opposed to the stock B body arrangement where the booster sits close to the firewall. Both setups use a linkage reduction. The B body stuff is on the interior side, the A body stuff is on the engine side. The pushrod from the brake pedal to the reduction linkage can be cut right here:

With some precise measuring, I can cut this pushrod and weld in a small section to raise the pedal. If I go too far, I can adjust the clutch pushrod a little to match.
I know that as far as function, this is not important. It is a matter of appearances.

 

[dadsbee]

Why for the sake of appearance? It's supposed to be down there so you can pivot your toes off the go pedal and onto the brake pedal without lifting your heel and vis versa! Think starting on a hill...