Trickflow Heads with HP Manifolds? Plugs?

[451Mopar]

Might try 6’s, what do you look for on plug that relates to heat range?

Bird 426 had the answer. The spark plug threads closest to the chamber will have two or three threads discolored compared to the rest of the plug threads.
The -11 is factory pre gaped 0.044".
I also use nickel anti seize on the plug threads. I think NGK says their plugs don't need it? The Champion plugs sure do! I test fit a Champion in a new set of heads dry, just finger tight, and the lower two threads seized. Lesson learned there.
The MSD ignition should not have a problem with the larger plug gap if you are not running boost AND the coil, wires, cap and rotor are up to the task.
Newer cars with coil on plug can easy run the larger gap, no issues with rotor cap phasing and stray crossfires to worry about, and no plug wires that might have marginal insulation.
Just saying you have to look at the whole ignition as a system working together.
The larger the gap (and cylinder pressure) the higher the secondary voltage needs to build up to jump the gap, but that higher voltage might find other places to jump the gap if given the chance.
On these older cars I'm not looking for that last 1 HP so I usually just use 0.035" to 0.040" plug gap.
That might also be a consideration when running the Holley Sniper to reduce RF noise.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

Trickflow recommends the Autolite 3924.

 

[Road Grabber]

I have an update. I put BKR6E NGK plugs in.

Bit of background:
This is a new 440 six pack engine build. Trickflow Heads with a Hughes Engines .520/280.6 hydraulic roller lifter/rocker cam. Originally the six pack carbs ran great with a Purple Shaft .484/.284 flat tappet cam. I am using 1.6 rockers.

-During the first start up the carb bowls flooded because of stuck needle and seats. The carbs sat for a couple years.
-I rebuilt the carbs and no more gas overflow but I did have fuel bowl levels too high and began to adjust the fuel level in the bowls.
-The center carb did have a quick backfire but after I advancing the timing that seemed to correct the problem. Engine starts right back up again. No run on. The float levels are close if not correct.
-After a few start up issues the motor is running however during the last start up the engine began to chug and shake more and more violently. To the point that the steering wheel shook. This did not happen initially.
-Because of the shaking I checked the clutch to see if I had a collapsed pressure plate finger(s). Nothing loose.
- I removed the plugs and noticed my #8 plug doesn't seem to be firing and the rest of the plugs look white with a patch of white? on top of the side electrode.
- I haven't done a compression check yet but the engine builder did have a note about 160 psi. This is not confirmed yet. I am doing that tomorrow.

I have never seen plugs this white before The center insulators are white but look like they are firing. The side electrodes look like they have bleached blots on top. The majority of the plugs appear white like this. Consistent. The motor has only run about 20 minutes? I drove it down a block or two and came back because I didn't have much fuel in the tank. The motor really didn't seem to have much response so a lean condition seems more and more an issue.

Since the cam and heads have I would think a lot more flow capacity I am thinking I have either a lean condition and have to jet the carbs out AND/OR in addition I have to try a colder plug. I could even try another plug besides the NKG plugs. I found my paperwork for the Trickflow heads and they list an Autolite 3924 plug.

I am interested in how you would take the next step.
- Would you change the plugs to a cooler range and THEN jet the carbs?
OR
Jet the carbs larger and stay with the the NGK plugs?

If I do both at the same time I won't know about the possible lean condition.

Any thoughts out there?

 

[Road Grabber]

Plug picture:

First plug below doesn't seem to be firing

 

[Bee1971]

A lot of those plugs looked like they got gas washed really bad

You sure you have your six pack figured out , especially that center carb

I am not a six pack expert , except when it comes to beer , however before you can start reading spark plugs you need to get that fuel issue figured out

Any fuel getting in the oil ?

 

[Road Grabber]

A lot of those plugs looked like they got gas washed really bad

You sure you have your six pack figured out , especially that center carb

I am not a six pack expert , except when it comes to beer , however before you can start reading spark plugs you need to get that fuel issue figured out

Any fuel getting in the oil ?

I did have a massive fuel overflow first time out and when I started the engine the second time my floats were too high. The damage may have been done already with the over rich mixture. Maybe throw a set of new plugs in and start over?

I have checked my oil level and no sign of fuel but I will smell the oil dip stick tomorrow. Thanks for the reply.

 

[RemCharger]

In the first 2 pictures, the plugs haven't been tightened. The crush gaskets aren't crushed. Replace the 1 fouled plug and try it.

 

[Road Grabber]

Yes that was a thought when I removed a few plugs they loosened easy.
It’s my first time using aluminum heads and it makes me nervous tightening plugs in those threads.

Thank you for the advice and observation.

 

[Road Grabber]

Recent update:

I discovered that the engine builder, because I told him it was a 6 pack engine, had replaced my vibration damper with an aftermarket balancer for a 6 pack engine which is externally balanced. The 6 pack specs put an additional balancing weight screwed in BACK of the aftermarket damper. After I reminded him that the engine was internally balanced years ago I was able to figure out that I had to remove the additional weight by removing the damper and unscrewing it. Put the damper back on and NO MORE shaking. Years ago I had the 6 pack engine and balancer internally balanced so I would never have to worry about a special flywheel or balancer. This part solved.

I removed the covers and did not see any markings that I could notice on the covers or rockers which are a gold anodized color that I think would show up easily.

Now it's a matter of putting on covers without leaking and tuning the carb. I had increased two jet sizes. The engine seems to run strong with the larger jet size. Now I have a little soot on the #1 plug but I didn't even adjust the idle yet and didn't run it very long. The engine was leaking too much oil from the covers.

I know there other posts about this but if anyone has a tried and proven way of installing valve covers without leakage that would be great.

 

[RemCharger]

Valve cover gaskets?

Did you check the valve preload adjustment. With the EOIC method.

 

[Road Grabber]

Valve cover gaskets?

Did you check the valve preload adjustment. With the EOIC method.

I have not checked preload. That is also a concern. Please define/explain the EOIC method.

I have read posts and seen people use 1/4 turn to half turn to full turn after removing free play.

When I removed the cover I could move some rockers up and down a bit but it almost seemed like I was compressing the lifter and it wasn’t a gap that was there.

Is it normal for lifters to bleed down a bit after shutting down the engine that is causing this rocker play?

I could use some advice here since it’s my first experience with hydraulic roller lifters and adjustable rockers.

Thank you for the responses. Always appreciated.

 

[Geoff 2]

The EOIC takes forever & is not necessary. The chart below [ from Chrys ] uses two full turns of the crank to adj 16 valves.
Some lifters bleed down, some do not. Both are ok. As long as they pump up [ no noise ]when the engine is running. During adjustment, if you have a lifter that has bled down, it should feel 'springy'. That is the small spring inside the lifter. As long as there is no actual play/clearance, you are ok.

 

[Road Grabber]

This is very helpful. What does EOIC stand for?

What amount of preload is used? I’ve seen people comment on anywhere from 1/4 turn to a full turn.

Thank you

 

[Bird 426]

Sounds to me like you have several problems. 1st, get your spark plugs installed correctly, one heat range one way or another isn't your issue. If you had a backfire, did you blow the power valve in the center carb? What number power valve is in there? What is your manifold vacuum? What are you using for a fuel pump? Have you checked your fuel pressure at the carbs? Needs to be down around 5 psi. Don't care what others say. No matter what I did, my plugs always looked rich. After 3 years, I regulated fuel pressure down to 5, adjusted fuel bowl levels back up to the bottom of the hole and wow, what a difference. No more black plugs, my fuel pressure had been around 7.5 or so. Now I can start all over with tuning. Your plugs look to be washed in fuel. This is just one of your many issues. Just my opinion, but if things aren't working, keep looking.

 

[71Beeper]

Road Grabber - EOIC stands for:
Exhaust Open Intake Closed

 

[Road Grabber]

I have changed the NEW oil pump with an existing high volume pump I had and resolved the low oil pressure.

But now I have another problem that I hope isn't serious. I used the chart above and after restarting the engine heard some clapping noise that did eventually go away thinking it was again bad lifter preload.

I readjusted the preload using TDC for each cylinder and that lowered the noise. I was very careful to follow the chart.

I now have a puff of blue/black smoke with a miss (or two). The carb was jetted up one size but I'm not liking the blue puff with hitting the throttle.

How do I make sure the pistons didn't hit the valves? Compression check?

The compression tool I have would be almost impossible for # 6 & 8 cylinders because the heads are very close to the inner fender. I will check as many as I can and compare readings.

If the compression is the same for all cylinders I'm hoping I didn't smack valves. There isn't any popping or backfiring.

If anyone has a tool to recommend to reach the hard to get to plug holes that would help.

 

[Road Grabber]

So just an update. For piece of mind I did pull the heads. No damage. The puff of smoke should be rings still breaking in. Hopefully get back together before the big freeze.

I did flip the heads and also pour antifreeze in the combustion chamber. No leaking.

I will be able to set the lash now without the intake on. It's been a journey but learned some things on the way talking to both Hughes Cam and Trickflow for tech info. Calling them both should have been first on my list.

One thing I will do is after reading the Trickflow heads instruction sheet is take the time to pull the manifolds and retorque the heads.

Next season should be a better situation. Thanks for the responses.