Trouble with oiling to rocker shafts

[Mark1972]

Got the new CompCams 1621-16 set in. Shafts with oil holes down. Proper .030" clearance between rockers(had to do some sanding), and hold down bolts torqued to factory spec 25ft/lbs. All left and right rockers in proper place. Valve clearance set, and preload done(at base circle). Then installed new filter(WIX51515) and put 5 quarts of Driven 10/40 hotrod oil in. Put as much as I could in the filter without it pouring out. Cranked the engine over with a bar on the crank a few turns, but no oil coming out the rockers(valve covers off). I used Driven assembly lube on everything, and poured the engine oil on the rockers shaft/arm assemblies. Took the coil wire off and turned the engine over for about 3-4 seconds. Still no oil. Ok, wtf? No leaks underneath.

P.s. usually, the oil pressure light(don't have a gauge yet)turns off as soon as the car turns over for 1-2 seconds. After 3-4 seconds, it's still on.

 

[snakeoil24]

You mention oil holes facing down. Are the shafts grooved? If they are groves face down and oil holes up top so that they time with holes in rockers. Being a hemi guy here I maybe wrong thinking you have grooves but oil holes have to align with rocker holes

 

[Mark1972]

The installation sheet from CompCams says specifically to make sure oil holes are down. The engine builder made this very clear to me as well, and he has used these particular roller rockers several times. There are no grooves, just holes.

Ultra Pro Magnum Shaft Mount Rocker Arms: Chrysler; 1.5 Ratio

 

[snakeoil24]

Did you use a priming rod into the pump while turning engine?

 

[gkent]

A fresh unprimed motor can take a bit longer than a few seconds to prime. You should have primed it by hand before cranking it. NEVER EVER crank a fresh motor without checking oil pressure by hand priming.

And speaking of "priming rod", the oil pump turns counter clockwise.

 

[Don Frelier]

You may just need to spin it faster.
I would just start it up and run it at 2,000 rpm.
The oil pump worked before then it will work again.

 

[Mark1972]

No, I never used a priming rod. Don't have one. I didn't think I'd need one on an engine that just ran a week ago, and other than the bad stamped steel rocker, worked fine. This motor was rebuilt 3 years ago, and has had no other issues in the almost 4000 miles it's got on it. If this was a fresh rebuild, then I absolutely would have printed it with the rod and drill first.

 

[eldubb440]

the oiling holes for the top end are only lined up for a very small portion of the rotation

pre oiling top end of 440 motor

 

[GTX JOHN]

Priming Rods are cheap and easy.
Engine repairs are not cheap or easy!

 

[khryslerkid]

P.s. usually, the oil pressure light(don't have a gauge yet)turns off as soon as the car turns over for 1-2 seconds. After 3-4 seconds, it's still on.

And you did an oil and filter change. 3 or four seconds isn't enough time to get the air out of the pickup tube, pump, filter. Fire it up and let it idle. Make sure the choke idle is off so it doesn't rev up.

 

[GTX JOHN]

I would also immediately BUY an Oil Pressure Gauge and install
it for any HP engine. Really = anything I owned.

 

[Geoff 2]

The oil supply to the top end is a 'timed' supply @ #4 cam brg. From memory, those rockers have a bush on each end but are open in the middle. That centre space has to fill up with oil before it reaches the exit holes in the rocker; will take longer to start emitting oil from the rockers than the stock stamped rockers would take.

 

[gkent]

Cranked the engine over with a bar on the crank a few turns,

Well this will do absolutely nothing as far as priming the pump or moving any oil

Took the coil wire off and turned the engine over for about 3-4 seconds.

You could do it for 3-4 minutes and it still won't accomplish anything. The cam (which drives the pump) turns at half the crank speed. How fast do you think the motor was turning ?!?! If the system was fully primed - yes, you would see oil coming out. But not on an unprimed system being turned by the starter.

Keep in mind you had the rockers assemblies all off AND your oil filter. So the oil in the system was exposed to atmospheric pressure and it drained. It should have been primed.

 

[Mark1972]

My obvious lack of experience is showing here. The engine builder never said anything about priming the engine after I did this work. But all in it's still my fault. I just bit the bullet and started the engine and within 3-4 seconds there was oil squirting out the little holes in the rockers. Oil light turned off immediately once the engine fired. Yes, I'm going to get an oil pressure gauge tomorrow.
So now that the engine is running again. I did the half turn for pre-load when installing yesterday. Now I've never had a vehicle with roller rockers. There is a pretty noisy consistent knocking coming from the valve cover. Clearance isn't a problem as I checked that before ever starting the engine. CompCams gives nothing for instruction other than having a minimum of .030" clearance between rockers. First, is it normal to have a noisier valve train with roller rockers compared to stock? Second, is it normal to do another 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn after it's been run in? Thanks again all.

 

[gkent]

Is this a hydraulic cam? A little clacking with a solid lifter would be expected since those have lash but with a hydraulic the preload should be taking up any space.

Regardless, you set the preload with each lifter on the base circle, correct?

The easiest method to set preload on a hydraulic cam is this:
with the lifter on the base circle:
a) back off the adjuster completely - back the nut off a little extra
b) twirl the pushrod with two fingers as you tighten the adjuster
- when the pushrod can't be twirled you have reached ZERO lash or preload
c) turn the adjuster an additional 1/2 turn which will yield .025" preload
d) tighten the nut while holding the screw in that position
Proceed to the next rocker.

You can use the chart below to adjust an intake and exhaust in the same cam position.

Oh, having a timing tape on the damper really makes life easier here as well.

 

[gtxrt]

My obvious lack of experience is showing here. The engine builder never said anything about priming the engine after I did this work. But all in it's still my fault. I just bit the bullet and started the engine and within 3-4 seconds there was oil squirting out the little holes in the rockers. Oil light turned off immediately once the engine fired. Yes, I'm going to get an oil pressure gauge tomorrow.
So now that the engine is running again. I did the half turn for pre-load when installing yesterday. Now I've never had a vehicle with roller rockers. There is a pretty noisy consistent knocking coming from the valve cover. Clearance isn't a problem as I checked that before ever starting the engine. CompCams gives nothing for instruction other than having a minimum of .030" clearance between rockers. First, is it normal to have a noisier valve train with roller rockers compared to stock? Second, is it normal to do another 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn after it's been run in? Thanks again all.

if a 1/2 turn is only .025 and if you want quiet lifters you need closer to .075

 

[Mark1972]

Sorry, yes, it's a hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifters. I did set the preload for each valve at base circle, and did half a turn for pre-load. The method I used was from Pete's Garage YouTube channel, where he grabs the rocker arm itself and moves it gently up and down and sets the adjuster until no more looseness, then sets preload. He was careful to point out not to push down on the pushrod, where you could mistake looseness for lifter movement.

 

[gkent]

if a 1/2 turn is only .025 and if you want quiet lifters you need closer to .075

No you don't.

 

[gtxrt]

No you don't.

why not

 

[gkent]

Because the oil pressure maintains the preload. In order to be noisy the lifter(s) would have to bleed down.