TUNING A SIX PACK

[RM23M9A]

This freakin "Thread" will continue for centuries.. Sometimes books just don't overcome experience. That being said, what's a suggestion on how to CLEAN these, COMPLETELY without dissolving the carburetor itself? Mine have (plastic floats). Ive seen some brutal chemicals in the military, then there are the YouTube University "Professors", one of which has his daugter or wife rebuilding an Int.Harvester carb, (Weirdly enough).
He recommends some gallon of (I forget what it is), but I'm about to try and find that video.. It'd Be nice to be able to toss everything in like a 1 gallon bucket over a day or so, and have it come out only needing a few blasts of shop air then back together it goes.
These 2300's really are about thee most simple unit one could have to deal with. So far

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

This freakin "Thread" will continue for centuries.. Sometimes books just don't overcome experience. That being said, what's a suggestion on how to CLEAN these, COMPLETELY without dissolving the carburetor itself? Mine have (plastic floats). Ive seen some brutal chemicals in the military, then there are the YouTube University "Professors", one of which has his daugter or wife rebuilding an Int.Harvester carb, (Weirdly enough).
He recommends some gallon of (I forget what it is), but I'm about to try and find that video.. It'd Be nice to be able to toss everything in like a 1 gallon bucket over a day or so, and have it come out only needing a few blasts of shop air then back together it goes.
These 2300's really are about thee most simple unit one could have to deal with. So far

carbs have to come fully apart. You soak the hard parts in carb cleaner. Depending how bad they are depends on how long you have to soak. Longer parts are in there the more likely it’ll strip the coloring as well. It it was a running car you should be able to pull them down and get everything cleaned up relatively easy. If they’re like my mechanical carbs, it took days of soaking and cleaning. I even boiled them in simple green at one point.

 

[RM23M9A]

Thats what I just did. Used a Sonic Cleaner with simple green.. It cleaned up!

 

[roadrunner69440]

So I stumbled on this thread and talk about perfect timing! I’ve been talking with several people and they claim I can’t make good power from a 6 bbl setup. My build/target is 69 runner 440 stock stroke diamond 10.5 slugs, either Toth or Tf240 heads, Hughes cam, hp target is 550. Am I wasting my time and efforts with a 6 bbl?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Keep the dual plane intake in mind when you consider the cam specs and valve train.
The 6bbl w/factory intake can work fine for the broad description of your build.

 

[rumblefish360]

So I stumbled on this thread and talk about perfect timing! I’ve been talking with several people and they claim I can’t make good power from a 6 bbl setup. My build/target is 69 runner 440 stock stroke diamond 10.5 slugs, either Toth or Tf240 heads, Hughes cam, hp target is 550. Am I wasting my time and efforts with a 6 bbl?

No, not at all. If you have the 6 pack set up, use it.
Everyone says, but none of them actually ever had one.
Those rare few that did that say you can’t...... can’t tune a carb.

The operating RPM range of that intake is 2500-6500 RPM. If you have the coin or talent, port the intake! The intake (most any) is limiting the head potential.
FWIW, I’d go trick flow.scroll down to the six pack intake.
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/4portedintakemanifoldsupdated08272007.php
This is a 500 cube build;
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dynotest684hp500cid6pack4bbljcross012007.php

 

[biomedtechguy]

This is a 500 cube build;
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dynotest684hp500cid6pack4bbljcross012007.php

The above link you provided really got me stoked about the performance of the 6bbl.
Because my 70 Roadrunner is a V-Code, even though I'm using a BMP aluminum block for a 541 stroker build, I will not compromise on having anything but a 3x2 intake. I did get the old school Super Stock Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake, which is a single plane design.
Indy also offers the ModMan intake w/a 6bbl top.

 

[66Satellite47]

So I stumbled on this thread and talk about perfect timing! I’ve been talking with several people and they claim I can’t make good power from a 6 bbl setup. My build/target is 69 runner 440 stock stroke diamond 10.5 slugs, either Toth or Tf240 heads, Hughes cam, hp target is 550. Am I wasting my time and efforts with a 6 bbl?

In the mid '70's I picked up a few 6 Paks & 6 Pak carb setups. They were inexpensive because they typically didn't run well on the street in stock form.
Tuning is the key. My 1st one was an A12 setup with the aluminum intake, '69 end carbs & a modified 500 in the center. It was converted to manual outboards(common at the time). I put a vacuum port in the 500 & went to the stock vacuum outboard setup. My stock '70 carbs worked very well with little tuning.
Several threads on here describe the tuning that I used and others did to get real good performance. 550 with good heads and the right cam is easily obtainable with the 6 Pak.

 

[Frustration]

Not wasting your time at all. I'd guess I'm right in your ballpark for HP, but I do

So I stumbled on this thread and talk about perfect timing! I’ve been talking with several people and they claim I can’t make good power from a 6 bbl setup. My build/target is 69 runner 440 stock stroke diamond 10.5 slugs, either Toth or Tf240 heads, Hughes cam, hp target is 550. Am I wasting my time and efforts with a 6 bbl?

have a 496" engine. I run CNC ported Stealth Heads, which are not as good as TF. I do run a solid roller...right out of the Comp Cams catalog. It's a .575 lift "street roller". I drive it everywhere, and it performs like a stock car...until you step on it! That being said, I wouldn't chase a HP number. What is your expected use of the car? If drag racing, how fast do you want to go? If a street car only, you won't likely get to use the total HP of the engine very often, if ever. I notice you are in PA...where abouts? I'm about 40 minutes North of Philadelphia. Happy to help if I can.

 

[roadrunner69440]

Not wasting your time at all. I'd guess I'm right in your ballpark for HP, but I do

have a 496" engine. I run CNC ported Stealth Heads, which are not as good as TF. I do run a solid roller...right out of the Comp Cams catalog. It's a .575 lift "street roller". I drive it everywhere, and it performs like a stock car...until you step on it! That being said, I wouldn't chase a HP number. What is your expected use of the car? If drag racing, how fast do you want to go? If a street car only, you won't likely get to use the total HP of the engine very often, if ever. I notice you are in PA...where abouts? I'm about 40 minutes North of Philadelphia. Happy to help if I can.

Thanks for the info! Yeah realistically this car will be 90% street. But if and when I do get to the track or an occasional red light run I don’t want it to be a 13 sec slouch. No as far as the numbers, as fast as I can go with what I have lol. I am just under an hour south of state college. I appreciate your help and your experience.

 

[biomedtechguy]

realistically this car will be 90% street. But if and when I do get to the track or an occasional red light run I don’t want it to be a 13 sec slouch.

If you look at the HP/TQ numbers at different RPMs from the Hughes 6bbl tests vs other 4bbl intake and carb comparisons, the 6bbl has a really nice torque number and RPM range compared to the 4bbls. GREAT for a street car w/occasional track trips.
I know the Weiand single plane I am going to try to get the most out of will be finicky, may need mods to the intake (to use on my current 440) certainly will need to be opened up to Max Wedge ports (no way I'm running TF 240s on a 541 cu in engine). So I may lose torque and torque over RPM range, but I suspect my ultimate goal, the 541, should make up for that.

 

[roadrunner69440]

If you look at the HP/TQ numbers at different RPMs from the Hughes 6bbl tests vs other 4bbl intake and carb comparisons, the 6bbl has a really nice torque number and RPM range compared to the 4bbls. GREAT for a street car w/occasional track trips.
I know the Weiand single plane I am going to try to get the most out of will be finicky, may need mods to the intake (to use on my current 440) certainly will need to be opened up to Max Wedge ports (no way I'm running TF 240s on a 541 cu in engine). So I may lose torque and torque over RPM range, but I suspect my ultimate goal, the 541, should make up for that.

I read Hughes article a while back also. Recently I called them to get cam recommendations and he tried to talk me out of the 6bbl. I can get stubborn and fixed on what I “want” but now I just want to make sure I’m not making a mistake ( I don’t think I am) thanks for your input!

 

[Bill Monk]

I read Hughes article a while back also. Recently I called them to get cam recommendations and he tried to talk me out of the 6bbl. I can get stubborn and fixed on what I “want” but now I just want to make sure I’m not making a mistake ( I don’t think I am) thanks for your input!

There's no doubt that a 6bbl is more work to get tuned in and more expensive but in a street car they rock. Then there's the nostalgia factor, few things make the eyes pop like a 6 pack when you open the hood and anybody that has ever been in the passenger seat when a well tuned 6 pack kicks in will remember it for the rest of their life.
Up to you but I like em!

 

[66Satellite47]

Cam selection is based on use, RPM and cylinder head capability. A 6 Pak with the TF heads and a good .500+ lift cam will get you 500 to 550 HP with the Edelbrock manifold. You need to do the tuning to make it work.

 

[rumblefish360]

Do so use a wide band 02 sensor. Lean on cruise is OK. That helps mileage. Not to fat on WOT. That’s just a waste of fuel. Getting the secondary side to come in when you want it to without issues is the goal.

Being your going to use the engine at stock displacement, save over boring, getting the very high numbers Hughes did will probably not be possible, everything else part wise the same, so, being said....

The cam you decide on will operate in a certain rpm band. This can be extended with easier breathing in and out. The in part is the 6 pack & intake side of the head. The out part being the exhaust port and the headers.
The easier it is to breath in and out the better the power will be. It will also broaden and bolster the power band (high and low) very well. Ported heads will extend the power band.

Also do not be afraid of a bigger tube header. IDK what you have now but a 1-3/4 isn’t helping. Step up! Do some home work on exhaust building. That’s the last leg of exhaling. Coupled with ported heads, the power band is furthered even more.

IMO, go for a solid lift cam. Think about what your getting before purchasing. Then go for it!

 

[biomedtechguy]

There's no doubt that a 6bbl is more work to get tuned in and more expensive but in a street car they rock. Then there's the nostalgia factor, few things make the eyes pop like a 6 pack when you open the hood and anybody that has ever been in the passenger seat when a well tuned 6 pack kicks in will remember it for the rest of their life.
Up to you but I like em!

Man you really hit a couple of my "hot buttons" re 6bbl...
When I first got my car, the outboard carbs were stuck closed. There were a number of things wrong with the car when I got to St. Charles, MO from around New Orleans, and maybe I could have passed on the purchase, but then again, when the car you find is:
*The PERFECT factory color combo, and THAT IS a big deal to me
*A real V-code although not #s drivetrain, which is better anyway when you want to modify the car, and you can't spend #s matching money
*A manual transmission and Track Pack
So back on track, the outboard carbs were stuck closed, and when I finally experienced what it was like when you add appx 1K CFM to the A/F volume intake...WOWOWOWOW!!
If the Weiand works out, I'm getting it polished!

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

So I stumbled on this thread and talk about perfect timing! I’ve been talking with several people and they claim I can’t make good power from a 6 bbl setup. My build/target is 69 runner 440 stock stroke diamond 10.5 slugs, either Toth or Tf240 heads, Hughes cam, hp target is 550. Am I wasting my time and efforts with a 6 bbl?

not sure why anyone spends money on toth heads. Buy trickflow 240’s. I ran a similar combo in my roadrunner. Flat top 440, kB pistons, stock rods, ported Indy SR’s, MP .557 cam with 1.6 rockers, 4.10 gear, 9 1/2 in convertor. Race weigh of around 4000#. Went a best of 11.58 with a six pack. Ran 11.60-11.70’s pretty consistently on pump gas. I’ve been 10.90’s with my six pack on a 511 in the same car. They will work.

 

[69 GTX]

I agree 550HP should be easy with TF240s My 440+6 set up very similar to 68HemiGTS dyno'd 590HP
Although the 10.5:1 might be a little high for the street unless you plan on running 92-93 octane.
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/trick-flows-on-the-440.107369/

 

[lyndondb]

I followed this thread to the finest detail and my six pack ran better than it ever had. However, my engine had been bored so the 220 thermostat was a little hot. I changed back to a 160 and runs perfect temperature and still runs great

 

[Frustration]

not sure why anyone spends money on toth heads. Buy trickflow 240’s. I ran a similar combo in my roadrunner. Flat top 440, kB pistons, stock rods, ported Indy SR’s, MP .557 cam with 1.6 rockers, 4.10 gear, 9 1/2 in convertor. Race weigh of around 4000#. Went a best of 11.58 with a six pack. Ran 11.60-11.70’s pretty consistently on pump gas. I’ve been 10.90’s with my six pack on a 511 in the same car. They will work.

We've talked here before, and I wanted to ask you about how your car performs on the street. I run a .575 solid roller in my 496RB with CNC ported Stealth heads and a 9.5" converter. I have some issues when I come to a stop sign, or red light...the car's idle drops to below satisfactory levels, and requires additional fuel via pushing the gas pedal. I've adjusted the float levels multiple times, thinking that it's starving for fuel, but there was little change. I'm wondering if this is due to the size of the cam and the fact that the 9.5" converter is a bit tight. Any info is appreciated. Tom