Valvetrain noise coming from rocker?

[Banzaiii67]

I've been fight a bit of valvetrain noise for a while, I've isolated the sound from the passenger side. Initial thought was a bad lifter not pumping up, so ran the engine with out the cover. Noise was still there, so that ruled out the rockers hitting the baffles. While running the lifters seemed to pump up fine. Dug a bit deeper and pull off the rocker shaft and rocker arm assembly to check the pushrods to see if they might be bent. Upon removing the rocker shaft, it seemed to be well past the recommend 25 pounds, which drew a red flag. As I read you can oblong the rocker shaft if you over tighten.

Moving on, all the pushrods looked ok, seem to roll out fine, but I rolled them on a piece of cardboard. I probably need roll them on a piece of glass to be 100%. Upon inspection however I came across what looked to be the problem. The rocker arms appear to be coming in contact with the retainers, causing what I would assume to be a tapping noise. I check the side to side measurement on the rocker arm and I can fit a .004 feeler gauge. The book say it should be be .001-.003.

I am running a Comp XE274 Cam, the valve springs are comp 911 springs. The retainers are comp retainers, I will have to check the degree on them comp lists a 7* and 10*, I don't know if that matter or not.

I guess what I need to know, It seem to me the rocker arms are too worn to reuse, but can you even run stock stamped rocker arms with that large of a cam or should I be looking at a roller rocker setup?

 

[lewtot184]

is that 8 degree locks with 10 degree retainers?

 

[Banzaiii67]

is that 8 degree locks with 10 degree retainers?

It's certainly possible. When I had the engine builder put the top end together, he called and said the retainer were not wide enough for the new springs. The one I had on there were the original retainers. I will have to check what I bought. Would that be the clearance issue?

 

[moparcanuck]

I had what I thought was a bad lifter on the passenger side that turned out to be a worn fuel pump shaft.

 

[lewtot184]

It's certainly possible. When I had the engine builder put the top end together, he called and said the retainer were not wide enough for the new springs. The one I had on there were the original retainers. I will have to check what I bought. Would that be the clearance issue?

looks like a real mismatch. don't drive it until you get the correct parts installed.

 

[miller]

Top photo, valve end on the far right, looks like it's dished. Bad wear, or was it ever fixed. Are the valves new, or used?

 

[splicer]

Those valve locks are sitting way too far down in the retainers....and as a result the retainer is up too high on the valve stem.....No wonder the retainers are hitting the rockers.....Those parts are badly mismatched and it's a good thing you looked before a failure....good call...

Splicer

- - - Updated - - -

Retainer and locks should look like this.....

Splicer

 

[Banzaiii67]

Yep.. definitely have 10 degree retainers on there, found the receipt. Thanks all !

 

[Garys1969RR]

We are using the Comp Cams XE 274 in my sons 383. Stock HP springs, retainers, locks. It has been working fine. Your retainer to lock mismatch is definitely a problem. Surprised it has held together without dropping a valve. Did you ever rev it up past 4 to 5 thousand RPM?

 

[Banzaiii67]

We are using the Comp Cams XE 274 in my sons 383. Stock HP springs, retainers, locks. It has been working fine. Your retainer to lock mismatch is definitely a problem. Surprised it has held together without dropping a valve. Did you ever rev it up past 4 to 5 thousand RPM?

Taking off the heads this weekend, hopefully their won't be any more surprises. The engine probably only has 500 miles on it, I've only taken to 5K RPM a few times.

I've also had a problem with A/F Ratio problem, couldn't find any vacuum leaks, but I thinks it's all related to the problem at hand.

 

[dvw]

Taking off the heads this weekend, hopefully their won't be any more surprises. The engine probably only has 500 miles on it, I've only taken to 5K RPM a few times.

I've also had a problem with A/F Ratio problem, couldn't find any vacuum leaks, but I thinks it's all related to the problem at hand.

Pay very close attention to the lock grooves in the valves. They may have been damaged. If so scrap them now before you break a valve and it falls into the cylinder at speed. It's scary that the engine "Builder" put this combo together. I hope the rest of the motor is OK?
Doug

 

[rev.ronnie]

The rockers hitting the retainers will act like a spring compressor. It's a matter of time till a valve drops.

 

[Banzaiii67]

Pay very close attention to the lock grooves in the valves. They may have been damaged. If so scrap them now before you break a valve and it falls into the cylinder at speed. It's scary that the engine "Builder" put this combo together. I hope the rest of the motor is OK?
Doug

I bought the long block motor from a guy off craiglist, the bottom end was rebuilt by a reputable builder in Portland. The heads appear to be very amateur. I'm keeping my finger crossed when i pull the heads the KB-162 piston aren't too far in the hole. My pops always said "Trusting is good, checking is better".. It's on me

 

[fuely62]

By the looks of the dish on your valve stems. I'd say start from scratch, with all new valves and the correct locks. Be sure to check valve stem height or length before assembly(not talking about spring height) , unless you are using adj. push rods or rockers. If to long will hold valves open, if to short (not likely) lifter clatter.

 

[Jonnyuma]

I bought the long block motor from a guy off craiglist, the bottom end was rebuilt by a reputable builder in Portland. The heads appear to be very amateur. I'm keeping my finger crossed when i pull the heads the KB-162 piston aren't too far in the hole. My pops always said "Trusting is good, checking is better".. It's on me

Who was the long block builder? And who did the heads? Just curious cuz I haven't been in the area very long and I'm always interested in recommendations for car stuff. Also interested in whatever the opposite of a recommendation is (a warning?).

 

[Banzaiii67]

Portland Engine Rebuilders did the short block, heads were done by either the previous owner or he bought them this way (no receipts) . I don't really have any negative to say about Portland Engine Rebuilders, Ted King the owner has been helpful. My only gripe is if they knowing put the KB162 pistons and did not account for the lack of compression height. My receipt from his shop does not indicate he sold the pistons, so from his point of view he did not consult with the previous owner on the build and just followed his budget/instructions. I have a buddy that is building a screamer of a 289 and he's been very helpful and thorough with his build.

Andy Finkbiener (AR Engineering and author of how to build max performance mopar big blocks) lives in Salem, he uses Gray Racing Engine in Tigard. Their specialty is circle track chevy motors though.
http://www.graysengines.com/

Several people I know (non-mopar) have used Paola's in Oregon City.
http://www.paoloengine.com/

- - - Updated - - -

By the looks of the dish on your valve stems. I'd say start from scratch, with all new valves and the correct locks. Be sure to check valve stem height or length before assembly(not talking about spring height) , unless you are using adj. push rods. If to long will hold valves open, if to short (not likely) lifter clatter.

Thanks for the advice. I don't plan to use these heads, going to aluminum or closed chambered if the pistons aren't too far down in the hole

 

[Banzaiii67]

So I pulled the heads this weekend.. surprise..surprise.. I have one 346 head and one 906 head. I think a moron put this top end together.

The somewhat as expected news was I definitely have KB 162 pistons and they are .025 in the hole. I will post some pictures today, when I have the chance. The cylinder walls look good to me. The steel shim head gasket has definitely left a imprint on the block, i'm not sure if i'll be able to run another one or not.

 

[miller]

Wow! Glad you dug into it, and found things out.

Don't know others feelings about steel gaskets, but I've never had any probs with them. Imprint on the block...can you 'feel' it. Over-torqued?
Just a sideline bit, on those steels, I've always used a light coat of coppercote on mine.

Good luck on all of it!