Viper T56 install

[747mopar]

They're here, turns out the place I ordered these from is one of those online places that just takes orders and then ships direct so being around the holiday they were closed (for that price who cares). I like this setup better than the TKO's as well, instead of the hub aligning the bellhousing these have dowel pins like the stock motor and tranny which makes building the spacer more forgiving.








I really don't get this, why would anybody want to use socket head bolts to bolt a tranny in?



As you can see the there's nothing under the throwout bearing (internal hyd) so making the spacer should be a breeze, just a lip around the outside.





And Goons slick RST setup.

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Maaaaaan! You got me so excited on all this I think I'm gonna sell my factory seats and some other parts I have kicking around to jumpstart me joining in the 6-speed fun.. :thinker:

As always thanks for all the info and prices, killer deal on the bellhousing!!

 

[HYRDGOON]

Looks like all the pieces are in play! Everything's looking great it's nice to see the bellhousing is a quality piece. Would I require the same clutch bolts from McLeod as you got?

The only thing I don't have the just of yet (and I'm sure I will soon) is how much you require in the way of tunnel mods! Looking forward to this big time!

 

[747mopar]

I'll have to look but I think yours had some bolts in it.

 

[6speedGTX]

Looks like you're pretty well set to get that sucker installed!
FWIW, when I put mine in, I had to cut off the pinch welded flange where the firewall and the transmission tunnel met up to clear the bellhousing. I ended up removing the entire transmission tunnel and allowing a little extra room on the sides as well. I cut off and smoothed out a couple of tabs on the transmission case on the top at the front as well. Don't forget to cut out/allow room for the reverse lockout solenoid. Although I ended up completely removing the torsion bar/trans mount crossmember and starting over, the mount actually did line up perfectly with the original crossmember. When I initially fit it in, the crossmember had to be cut just on the inside of the inner bolt holes, straight up to fit the tail shaft housing in.
I don't know how similar it will be to fit in yours being a different year, and hopefully this helps get an idea of how much cutting is required. I have pics posted on here somewhere. If I figure out where, I'll post a link.
Good luck and happy cutting!

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Man that was fast, looks like I already have buyers lined up for most of my stuff haha. One thing crossing my mind on joining you guys is going from automatic to manual which clutch pedal assembly would be best for the setup, if I should go stock or that slick Wilwood setup USArr is running?

 

[747mopar]

Looks like you're pretty well set to get that sucker installed!
FWIW, when I put mine in, I had to cut off the pinch welded flange where the firewall and the transmission tunnel met up to clear the bellhousing. I ended up removing the entire transmission tunnel and allowing a little extra room on the sides as well. I cut off and smoothed out a couple of tabs on the transmission case on the top at the front as well. Don't forget to cut out/allow room for the reverse lockout solenoid. Although I ended up completely removing the torsion bar/trans mount crossmember and starting over, the mount actually did line up perfectly with the original crossmember. When I initially fit it in, the crossmember had to be cut just on the inside of the inner bolt holes, straight up to fit the tail shaft housing in.
I don't know how similar it will be to fit in yours being a different year, and hopefully this helps get an idea of how much cutting is required. I have pics posted on here somewhere. If I figure out where, I'll post a link.
Good luck and happy cutting!

Thanks, I'm all ears to anybody who has done this. I've seen a few installs and none have cut the pinch weld yet but I believe all the ones I've seen were 68-70 B Bodies like mine so I'm keeping my fingers crossed (that's where the bedliner ends and the paint begins). As for the solenoids I saw those bulky things hanging out there, I will open it up this weekend to take a look but I think they can be removed without and troubles (skip shift solenoid and reverse lockout). Thanks



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Man that was fast, looks like I already have buyers lined up for most of my stuff haha. One thing crossing my mind on joining you guys is going from automatic to manual which clutch pedal assembly would be best for the setup, if I should go stock or that slick Wilwood setup USArr is running?

It's all in the pocket book, with a wife and 2 kids everything for me is stretching the dollar as far as it will go. I would just advise you to make up your mind before the dash is fully assembled (I think yours is erhhh), you can easily add the extra "man pedal" to your existing one as I did. Basically the difference between a auto and standard set of pedals is......... a clutch pedal, a longer pivot pin and an extra bracket that can all be added to your existing one. If you look at your firewall you'll see 2 dimples in the metal where the extra hole are to be drilled for the additional bracket. You will have to pull the fresh air vent out to have enough room to slide the pin in and out, really not to bad just allot of goofing around on the floor so leave your seat out if you want to be comfy. I apologize if I've sparked the will to spend more money haha.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing to take into account for anyone thinking about this is your motor setup, it's very unlikely that you'll cruise at anything over 1,800 rpm on the freeway unless you go ridiculous with the gears so make sure your not putting one behind a purpose built race motor. I've been contemplating a cam swap since mine is very mellow but the low end of this setup will likely compliment the ratio's so I'm still on the fence (more performance or comfy cruising). Since even a mellow 456" Mopar wreaks havoc on the local boys I may just leave it alone.

Here's a couple #'s for you with 27" tall tires in 6th.

3.90 gears + 1,800rpm = 74 mph

4.10 gears + 1,800rpm = 70 mph

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Here's a link to Tremec's handy calculator.
http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php

And another link to the T56 gear ratios. You'll notice all Vipers have a .50 final drive.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Borg-Warner_T-56_transmission?lang=en

 

[6speedGTX]

Thanks, I'm all ears to anybody who has done this. I've seen a few installs and none have cut the pinch weld yet but I believe all the ones I've seen were 68-70 B Bodies like mine so I'm keeping my fingers crossed (that's where the bedliner ends and the paint begins). As for the solenoids I saw those bulky things hanging out there, I will open it up this weekend to take a look but I think they can be removed without and troubles (skip shift solenoid and reverse lockout).

I agree that both solenoids can be removed and the transmission will still function fine. If you remove the reverse lockout solenoid, you'll just have to be mindful on the 6-5 downshift that you don't accidentally grab R. I chose to keep mine and wire it into the brake light switch. I've heard of others taking the solenoid apart and putting a lighter spring in so that it is a little harder to put into R than any forward gears. Either way you'll be good.

 

[747mopar]

Good idea with the brake lights, I can see the benefit of keeping it and that one I don't think will be a problem being tucked into the tail shaft area. I just might steal that idea?

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Oh yeah how did I forget you converted your car from auto? :head_smack: I'll have to go back and look but didn't you use an oem clutch pedal assembly? This is the one I was eyeballing from.Wilwood, not too horrible on the price either

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wil-340-11295


And damn, 1,800 at 74? Beats the 3,800 I'd probably be turning with my 727 haha

 

[Brandy]

I have a word doc that I have been adding everything to little by little as I come across these threads and all of the great links and info. I looked at the Viper site and the prices are not bad. $1500 bucks for a trans with less than 11,000 miles on it. I wonder how much cutting I'd have to do to put one in the '67 Coronet? Came with a 727.

 

[747mopar]

I have a word doc that I have been adding everything to little by little as I come across these threads and all of the great links and info. I looked at the Viper site and the prices are not bad. $1500 bucks for a trans with less than 11,000 miles on it. I wonder how much cutting I'd have to do to put one in the '67 Coronet? Came with a 727.

I think you'll be in about the same situation with there not being a big difference between 67 & 68 on the bottoms.

 

[conv67bdere]

Automatic to Manual . . . adding the man pedal . . .

Oh yeah how did I forget you converted your car from auto? :head_smack: I'll have to go back and look but didn't you use an oem clutch pedal assembly? This is the one I was eyeballing from.Wilwood, not too horrible on the price either

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wil-340-11295


And damn, 1,800 at 74? Beats the 3,800 I'd probably be turning with my 727 haha

Speedy,

Here's what I did for the conversion of my car from auto to manual . . .

This is what the kit looks like . . .



And how it looks after you add the parts to your existing brake bracket . . .



The kit came from Brewers Performance.

 

[HYRDGOON]

I'll add to this that I was educated by Devin that I would need a electronic speedo (which I'm still debating) or he also found me this option of an electronic to mechanical speedometer box if I choose to keep my stock guages which were just refurb'd and surrounded with the LED strip lighting. Both ideas have their benefits so something for me to consider.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/electronic-to-mechanical-speedometer-box/

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Hey thanks for the heads up kahn! Is that the same kit you used Dev? I just wonder Brewers' and the Wilwood one I linked, which would be easier to make work since the wilwood assembly is just a hair cheaper

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong here (I have just about zero knowledge/experience with manual transmissions) but would the Wilwood kit with hydraulic clutch be easier for me in this application since I would think I'd use the wilwood assembly up to a wilwood clutch master cylinder like it looked like 747 is using, then the line from MC to what I would think would be a hydraulic slave cylinder that'd be included with the trans or?

 

[Wookie316]

Pedal Ratio is the most important thing. The picture shows the empty hole where the shop set it, Needed a leg like Hercules to press it. Where it is connected now is where I set it. Now it works like a new sports car.
Remember to match your cylinder rod travel to your pedal travel. I learned the hard way. I believe a Wilwood 3/4 bore is 1.12 full travel, so make sure you clutch pedal travel where rod is connected is just under that so as not to bottom the cylinder out.

 

[747mopar]

Hey thanks for the heads up kahn! Is that the same kit you used Dev? I just wonder Brewers' and the Wilwood one I linked, which would be easier to make work since the wilwood assembly is just a hair cheaper

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong here (I have just about zero knowledge/experience with manual transmissions) but would the Wilwood kit with hydraulic clutch be easier for me in this application since I would think I'd use the wilwood assembly up to a wilwood clutch master cylinder like it looked like 747 is using, then the line from MC to what I would think would be a hydraulic slave cylinder that'd be included with the trans or?

I used a factory setup. The original pedal setup is the same thing that Kahn posted, they just reproduced it and sold it as a kit so if you were to find a used set it would be just what he showed. Having said that I can't see anything being "easier" to install because your basically just adding onto the existing pedals. As Wookie pointed out getting the ratio right is the important part which is the reason for my adjustable master cylinder mount (I can pivot it up and down for different attaching points).

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

I used a factory setup. The original pedal setup is the same thing that Kahn posted, they just reproduced it and sold it as a kit so if you were to find a used set it would be just what he showed. Having said that I can't see anything being "easier" to install because your basically just adding onto the existing pedals. As Wookie pointed out getting the ratio right is the important part which is the reason for my adjustable master cylinder mount (I can pivot it up and down for different attaching points).

Oh ok, that's a good idea for making that adjustable, I just wasn't/still not sure how compatible the oem clutch pedal was with the hydraulic MC. Does the pedal bolt right up to the pushrod no problem? Sorry for the noob questions just trying to clear myself up lol

 

[Brandy]

Hey MrSpeedfreak keep on asking, your just taking the questions right out of my head. I'm paying close attention too. Thanks everyone for doing the trailblazing for us!

BTW...does anyone want to buy a 727 with 69,000 miles on it? lol.

 

[conv67bdere]

Oh ok, that's a good idea for making that adjustable, I just wasn't/still not sure how compatible the oem clutch pedal was with the hydraulic MC. Does the pedal bolt right up to the pushrod no problem? Sorry for the noob questions just trying to clear myself up lol

Hey Speedy - I've got some of the "trail-blazing" documented on my build thread, but I'm not as far along to have to "get-er-done" right now. It looked to me like I needed to relocate the hydraulic master a little further to the left then where I originally set it up for my 5-speed. But now that I'm changing over to the Challenger tr-6060 6-speed, I'm considering swapping over to the same master that the Challenger used so it'll mate up nicely with the hydraulic slave cylinder that I've go inside my transmission . . . that seems to be the best option ( in my opinion ).

now, "where" it will need to be mounted on the pedal is still an unknown, as I was also thinking about how the travel would have to match - but, once again, I'm not there yet ! ! But, I'm sure that it can be moved up or down to get the travel to match the master, be smooth, and not require one to be a weight lifter to depress the clutch ! !

I'm thinking of starting another thread for my tr-6060 install, so as not to interfere with 747 Mopar and Goon on their modifications . . . but I'm following this, for sure !