Welding Help Please

[HawkRod]

Update

Thanks for all the advice - lots of good stuff here.

I made myself a test weld out a piece of flat steel. I am not sure of the gauge, but I think it is 18 gauge (measured about 0.050"). I cut a section off and then drilled 5/16th holes in that. I also cut two long cuts in the remaining piece so I can butt weld and plug weld some.

I then checked many of the items that were suggested before I started welding again. I increased my heat range by one notch and decreased my wire feed a little bit. But the Aha moment came when I checked my wire. I have flux core 0.035" wire on the spool. Previously, I did not use gas. So now I need to buy a spool of the proper wire.

Then I will try again. I wish I had more hours to devote to this, but it is what it is...

Thanks for the continued help and encouragement! I will check back in once I get the proper wire and weld a little bit!

My test piece:

 

[scotts74birds]

Called it! Just kidding. Hurry up and do this cause I'm doing the rockers on my Ram this week and my plug welding skills suck. I'd like to try to learn from you on this. Thanks!

 

[HawkRod]

Called it! Just kidding. Hurry up and do this cause I'm doing the rockers on my Ram this week and my plug welding skills suck. I'd like to try to learn from you on this. Thanks!

Dude, you are in a world of hurt if you are trying to learn from me! Perhaps I can teach you what NOT to do! ;-)

At any rate, I just got the new wire for my welder (0.025 non flux wire), so hopefully I can weld up a few plugs and see how it goes. I will share my results, good or bad, here on the forum so others can learn from my mistakes (or success!).

Hawk

 

[joshb1983]

im having same issues, i gotta replace my trunk pan and floor pans in my 70 belvedere..were i live no shops work on older cars and iv never welded before..prob do just like u are doing and practice and learn slowly..what would be the best welder though for floor pans and sheet metal? do u have to run 220 to use one also?

 

[HawkRod]

Welding Nirvana!!!

OK. Maybe the title is a bit overblown, but I am excited!

Thanks to the great help from this thread, I am now on the road to doing some passable welding! Note that I did NOT say that I am YET welding well, that will take time to consistently do a good job. But it seems that I now have my welder set up much better.

Changes I made: I purchased 0.025 non-flux core wire (they did not have 0.023 where I went). I also reduced my wire feed speed and increased my heat setting (see attached picture of welder). I left my gas speed at 20 CFH. For you newbies like me, note that your welder needs to have the proper pinch roller size, so check this, and the correct tip size too. Check this out to be sure it is right on the welder.

Oh. One other thing. I took Budnicks advice and bought an auto darkening welder's helmet. It's jut a cheap one, but it makes life MUCH easier to see when starting the weld.

So, some results:
The first weld I did with the new setup was lap joint weld A to stick my metal together. Not so good and a bit shaky.

Then I tried four plug welds. Thanks to 747mopar's great advice, the plug welding quickly turned out nice. He said to start in the middle and then when you get a puddle, work around the perimeter of the hole. You can see the first plug I was way to fast. Then on welds 2 and 3 I got better at filling in the hole. By plug 4, I was more patient and got what I think is a very nice weld.


Weld F is another lap joint. Still not great but getting better.


Welder settings.


I obviously need to practice more, and still need to try the butt welding, but I am making progress. Thanks again to all who have contributed so far! :headbang:

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im having same issues, i gotta replace my trunk pan and floor pans in my 70 belvedere..were i live no shops work on older cars and iv never welded before..prob do just like u are doing and practice and learn slowly..what would be the best welder though for floor pans and sheet metal? do u have to run 220 to use one also?

Joshb1983: I am probably the wrong guy to recommend a welder. I am sure many would say my welder is not very good. If you look at the picture from my post, you will see that it runs on 115Volts and draws 13 amps. This means you can plug it in just about anywhere and weld. You should only need a 220 Volt welder if you are welding some seriously thick material. For sheet metal, you should be fine with a small welder. Even my little Craftsman welder seems to do a nice job now that I have it set up better...

 

[Coronet 500]

Great work, I'll bet you'll be like my son and not able to stop now you have seen results.

 

[747mopar]

im having same issues, i gotta replace my trunk pan and floor pans in my 70 belvedere..were i live no shops work on older cars and iv never welded before..prob do just like u are doing and practice and learn slowly..what would be the best welder though for floor pans and sheet metal? do u have to run 220 to use one also?

"No", the question is what all do you want to use it for. If only using it for automotive use then a 110V unit is great, their small, light and can be plugged in anywhere. I'd say anything over 1/4" thick is pushing it with one but what is thicker than that on a car. I have a Lincoln SP135, it's 110V and works great, for heavier stuff we have a Tig and a Stick.

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Wow, that looks great. Looks like you already have it under control but I thought I'd mention that the small holes in #2&3 plugs will let moisture threw and allow rust to start but like I said judging from #4 you already have it under control "remember not only are you welding but sealing it up as well". On your lap joint "you don't want to run a solid bead on sheatmetal" it will warp it. Spot welds spaced out 2"-3" apart, then continue spot welding (never closer than 2") until it's a solid weld made of nothing but spot welds. Man, I had fits with this on my hood and almost scrapped it, it just takes practice and unfortunetly screwing some stuff up to figure it out. You made some good progress and should be feeling a little more confident about your project now. Do you have a wiper on your wire? Over time your wire will drag dirt into the tube until it start sticking "really pisses you off" a wiper just slides over the wire before it goes threw the rolls and wipes it off (it will save you some frustration). Great job

 

[HawkRod]

Wow, that looks great. Looks like you already have it under control but I thought I'd mention that the small holes in #2&3 plugs will let moisture threw and allow rust to start but like I said judging from #4 you already have it under control "remember not only are you welding but sealing it up as well". On your lap joint "you don't want to run a solid bead on sheatmetal" it will warp it. Spot welds spaced out 2"-3" apart, then continue spot welding (never closer than 2") until it's a solid weld made of nothing but spot welds. Man, I had fits with this on my hood and almost scrapped it, it just takes practice and unfortunetly screwing some stuff up to figure it out. You made some good progress and should be feeling a little more confident about your project now. Do you have a wiper on your wire? Over time your wire will drag dirt into the tube until it start sticking "really pisses you off" a wiper just slides over the wire before it goes threw the rolls and wipes it off (it will save you some frustration). Great job

Thanks for the continued help!

Yeah, I left all my plug welds alone after the first pass, just to get the idea. On a plug weld for the car, I would go and fill it in (and probably add about a pound of extra metal I would have to grind away too!:iamwithstupid

10-4 on the spot welding for the sheet metal. I wanted to try and get a nice weld pattern, so I welded a long line. I have added some more welds, and I have already warped the metal, so it happens fast! On a real project, I would do all spot welds and really work to keep the heat down. I guess the best way is to take lots of breaks, although I assume I could also lay some cool, wet rags around my work area to help pull out the heat?

As a test case, I should properly butt weld a long cut in a nice, flat test piece and see it I can end up with the whole line welded AND the panel still flat. That will be good practice. I know I still needs lots more practice, but now I feel like I have a chance of doing some of this bodywork myself. :headbang:

 

[747mopar]

Chance? Na, you got it covered.

 

[HawkRod]

More Welding

OK: To all you experts tired of hearing me talk about my crappy welding skills, move on! My hope here is to share my welding trials and tribulations with those who are learning to weld. Maybe some of this stuff that I post will help others...

So first: From my post with the plug welds, I forgot to show the back. Here you can see my first weld did not penetrate into the metal very well, but number 2, 3 and 4 did. #4 was my "prized" plug weld, and it shows on the back too.


Then I tried to make a new cut and butt weld it together. I first welded several spot welds on the top...


And when I looked underneath, they did not go deep enough into the cut. They were really just sitting on top of the metal.


So I re-did the cut and spot welds, and turned up my heat from 2nd notch to the third notch. Good penetration with this. Lesson learned (as stated in earlier posts by others): Most beginners use too little heat...


Here you can see what happens when too much heat warps a panel. This happened on my earlier welding trials, and you can see how much it affected the panels. In this case, I was really trying for good weld penetration, so I didn't worry about it.


Next set of pictures progress through adding small spot welds to close up and create a continuous weld.





This last one shows the penetration under my new weld. It was much better, but there were some cases where I could still see the cut metal.


(Ignore the last attached image, it got attached by accident and I am not sure how to delete it...)

 

[bm02tj]

i am buying a used mig and this is a good practice

 

[Propwash]

Looks like you're really having a ball with welding hsorman. And, learning at the same time! Keep it up..........heck of a good skill to have!

 

[BeastlyBirdie]

Another trick to see how continuous your stitches are is take some scrap, weld it into a v, so it makes a trough. Cover/plug the ends, throw water in, and see if it leaks. Not really needed, but, its one way to self demonstrate that pardon the pun, your welds hold water.

 

[rsd859]

Lots of great info here!!!

 

[firstgencharger]

I will be needing these skills in the near future and the info in the thread has been excellent as I had many questions as those posed here. I appreciate all the great suggestions from you more experienced Mopar Maniacs!


Thanx muchly!!!

 

[Budnicks]

Still looks kind of cold... maybe slow down just a little, turn up the heat &/or even better yet turn the wire-feed speed down some, keep the tip close with out sticking it in the weld, experiment with torch angles, especially while practicing, try turning the CO2/Argon gas up or down some, a couple PSI maybe, depending on metal thickness... than practice, move the torch in an inverted C like )))))))))) or down try hand with parts stood up at like a 45* or steeper angle & try the other direction (((((((( , down to up or up & down or side to side watch the molten puddle more, get a lighter lense maybe & helmet you can see out of better, don't go too light thou... try to make your weld straight & uniform, don't rush, concentrate more, adjust the welder for metal thickness & penetration, they should ultimately look like a row of nickels/dimes laying over each other or a consistent slightly crowned & even weld.... Practice makes perfect.... Welding in wind will effect the weld & gases around them too, be aware of what around you.... Good luck & have fun....

 

[HawkRod]

Still looks kind of cold... maybe slow down just a little, turn up the heat &/or even better yet turn the wire-feed speed down some, keep the tip close with out sticking it in the weld, experiment with torch angles, especially while practicing, try turning the CO2/Argon gas up or down some, a couple PSI maybe, depending on metal thickness... than practice, move the torch in an inverted C like )))))))))) or down try hand with parts stood up at like a 45* or steeper angle & try the other direction (((((((( , down to up or up & down or side to side watch the molten puddle more, get a lighter lense maybe & helmet you can see out of better, don't go too light thou... try to make your weld straight & uniform, don't rush, concentrate more, adjust the welder for metal thickness & penetration, they should ultimately look like a row of nickels/dimes laying over each other or a consistent slightly crowned & even weld.... Practice makes perfect.... Welding in wind will effect the weld & gases around them too, be aware of what around you.... Good luck & have fun....

To you and others who are continuing to provide help and guidance - THANK YOU!

It seems some others are also finding this useful, and most of us can't afford the big bucks it takes to pay someone to do this.

I know I have a long way to go to become good, but all these tips are really helping. Thanks again - I will keep reading and trying to incorporate these suggestions into my next practice run!

Hawk

 

[747mopar]

Bud touched on something that is definetly worth looking into and that is your hood. I've been welding for quite some time (mostly industrial) and thought I always had a good hood, I just got a new one this weak "I feel like I've been welding blind after using it" what a difference. It is a $120-$150 auto darkening (Mathenson I think), Wow what a difference. Didn't really help with my welds but when welding a crack or something hard to follow I can see it better resulting in straighter lines and better accuracy.

 

[Budnicks]

Bud touched on something that is definetly worth looking into and that is your hood. I've been welding for quite some time (mostly industrial) and thought I always had a good hood, I just got a new one this weak "I feel like I've been welding blind after using it" what a difference. It is a $120-$150 auto darkening (Mathenson I think), Wow what a difference. Didn't really help with my welds but when welding a crack or something hard to follow I can see it better resulting in straighter lines and better accuracy.

Yeah the auto tint/auto dark when you strike type hoods are the only way to go, I got my 1st one in 1996 or so, when I was designing & building allot of Utility, Crane & Aerial trucks for P.U.E.C. in Sacramento, haven't used anything else since.... I tend to like a little lighter lenses easier to see under adverse conditions, just don't go too light... I'm surprised all the years fabricating race cars, I didn't do it when they 1st came out in the late 80's, what can I say I'm a stubborn guy, stick with what works usually...

 

[scotts74birds]

Hsorman, thanks for documenting your learning curve! Tomorrow is the day for me to weld in the rocker on my Ram. Good, bad, or ugly. Do you mind if I add some of this learning to your post? Maybe some pics? I'm running a Hobart 175 Handler rig on 240, with gas (Co2-argon), and .024 Hobart solid core wire. Nirvana would be infinite heat control. This welder only has 4 positions of heat, but since good weldors have been doing great jobs with this for years, I'm not worried. Just another skill that I have to learn.
Just to throw a curve in here, the new panel has been coated with SEM Coppershield, and the substrate has been coated with Permatex Rust Convertor. I will be punching 3/16" holes in the new panel, and once fitted, I will try to scrape some of the other coating off my base materiel through the holes. The mating points at the front and back of the rocker will be filled with spot welds.
This is the biggest thing I have ever tried with welding. So, once again, do you mind if I add this to your thread?