Well, I've had enough of this 440 Mystery Motor

[dvw]

I would like to see the current pushrod preload. They make shims that will move the rocker shaft. Why not try this: Get some caliper washers that will go over the rocker shaft bolts. Bolt it all down and then measure preload. More than likely your existing pushrods will work. Its hard when you are learning something new about motors, trans, bodywork what ever, it can be daunting. You don't want to make a mistake. You know none of us. I personally still think a lot about new techniques in building my own race stuff. I'm on a strict budget and can't afford to make a mistake. We don't build 20 motors a year that can be experimented on. Being cheap I've learned what works and what is taking a chance. If it is taking a chance when I recommend a fix I will admit it. Take your time, sift out opinions, ask questions, then act on it with your best guess.
Doug

 

[oldbee]

Kudos to 'dvm'.. When i was racing back in the late 70's I never heard about half the stuff you guys are talking about.?? I was shifting @6500 with a torqueflight. Everything was great until the last rebuild late in the season when a rod let loose(after getting magnafluxed before the freshening up) . With 3 young ones my money was tight also, so I did 90% myself and I guess it usually worked. Thank god for 'Car Craft',' Hot Rod' magazines I guess.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I think getting an aluminum intake and ovaling the bolt holes is a good idea. Easier than with a cast iron one! As far as lifter pre load is concerned, I would assemble it with what you have, check pre load, then add some shims to the rocker shaft, if it's too tight, which it sounds like it is.

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, before you order pushrods based upon the info here, if you are going to replace the lifters, you need to recheck for OAL on pushrods just to be safe, might get lucky and pushrods might be same length or worst case you are back to a noisy valve train

That's a good point and I know some of you have already made it.
Yes, absolutely, the new lifters will go in first, then measure, then whatever I need to do with pushrods from there.

 

[moparedtn]

moparedtn--- totally agree with ur thinking. How many hours,days have many of us thought about "What do I do now" over&over&over. Kinda fun when you get down to the nitty-gritty.! Course it's easier when your 20yrs. old!!

Amen. Add to that the fact I haven't actually put an engine together in a couple decades and it gets a little funky.
I just don't remember having these things give me so much grief but then, as you say, I'm no spring chicken anymore - more of a walking medical experiment at this point.
I appreciate ya.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Well this sure does give us semi retired guys something to do in our spare time! We all try to help each other, and we learn alot in the process! Thanks to all who contribute!

 

[moparedtn]

I think getting an aluminum intake and ovaling the bolt holes is a good idea. Easier than with a cast iron one! As far as lifter pre load is concerned, I would assemble it with what you have, check pre load, then add some shims to the rocker shaft, if it's too tight, which it sounds like it is.

Yeah, I didn't even want to get into trying to egg out this cast iron one.
When you don't have a lot of machinery and hand drilling is about it, aluminum seems a lot more appealing.
Not only that, but it gives me some redundancy on the whole intake leak theory - it might even prove that this stock one has issues, who knows?
At least I'll know that if the aluminum one also has fitment issues, it ain't the intake.

Oh, about the rocker shaft shims - I figured I didn't want to try those, purely because I'm assuming everything on the 906's is stock and I didn't want to second guess the Mopar engineers and screw up something on the geometry, if that makes sense?

 

[moparedtn]

Well this sure does give us semi retired guys something to do in our spare time! We all try to help each other, and we learn alot in the process! Thanks to all who contribute!

Amen. Couldn't agree more.
I do try and help on other threads if it's something I've run across with the rest of the car, which I've learned all over again as I went through this one.
As you may recall, this car started as a project and wound up being therapy once cancer hit the third time - it literally was something to get me moving again.
Keeps the mind occupied and distracted from all the physical crap.

She started like this, pretty much all rotten underneath all the way forward:

Every dang part of her has been gone over/replaced/re-wired/whatever since.
The engine is the last of it. I just got to get that right, if for any other reason, so the wife can easily deal with it once I'm gone.

 

[moparedtn]

I would like to see the current pushrod preload. They make shims that will move the rocker shaft. Why not try this: Get some caliper washers that will go over the rocker shaft bolts. Bolt it all down and then measure preload. More than likely your existing pushrods will work. Its hard when you are learning something new about motors, trans, bodywork what ever, it can be daunting. You don't want to make a mistake. You know none of us. I personally still think a lot about new techniques in building my own race stuff. I'm on a strict budget and can't afford to make a mistake. We don't build 20 motors a year that can be experimented on. Being cheap I've learned what works and what is taking a chance. If it is taking a chance when I recommend a fix I will admit it. Take your time, sift out opinions, ask questions, then act on it with your best guess.
Doug

Oh heck, Doug, I've already apparently made a bunch of mistakes on this one.
I don't have any particular personal attachment to the engine specifically since I didn't build the dang thing - the rest of the car yeah, it's personal since I'm to blame for all of that. It's my work, you know?

Forgive me here. I'm trying hard to understand how you're telling me to measure preload.
Am I to experiment with sticking the washers between the rocker shaft and the head until there's zero noticeable preload, then measure how thick the washers are?
I had written off using the Mancini rocker shaft washers due to not wanting to possibly screw up the geometry, but ok, I'm game to experiment if I can understand...

 

[Garys1969RR]

I don't think .040" of shims is going to change the geometry enough to hurt anything. I made some shims out of an old steel shim head gasket (.020" thick). Used 2 of those on each pedastal, with a 509 hyd cam, and never had a problem. Used to rev that 451 to 6000 RPM all the time! Bear in mind that with every .020" shim, you are reducing pre load by .040". Because you're getting .020 on the push rod side, and .020 on the valve stem side. You can always use the shims as an easy test fix. If it solves the problem, then you can get shorter push rods.

 

[Brandy]

All true no doubt - but you seem to have forgotten one other little, tiny thing here:
one also has the choice to ignore threads we deem beneath ones' obviously superior skills and intelligence.
For whatever reasons, you've not taken that choice and even further, you've decided by some greater power of telepathy that you know and can therefore judge me.
You've also contributed nothing of use to this thread in the process.

Rather than respond in kind, I'll try to help you instead:
View attachment 391077
Door's over there. Watch your step.

I have never begrudged anyone help when they needed it. always glad to lend a hand. But how many times do you have to be told the same info before you get a clue and fix your motor or junk it. There's a difference between needing help, and once it's been given, moving on towards a solution, and beating a dead horse to death over and over again while not making a decision about the original problem. I don't need YOUR exit advise and I have not chimed in on this now ridiculous thread because your issue has been solved over and over again by others here. How many times do you need to hear the answer before you get it? here you go, one more time...Your engine is an obviously mismatched pile of disparate parts that are not now, nor are they ever, going to work smoothly together. Do one of two things man, junk it and start with a fresh known good motor or totally rebuild it from a bare block up. How freakin difficult is that to understand? Does it seriously take more than 300 replies to figure that **** out? Sorry if this tweaks yer nose but seriously?

 

[moparedtn]

Hey, first time I've ever had to use that "ignore" feature on here.
Works nice.
Moving on....I appreciate all of you sticking with me here, more than you know.

 

[moparedtn]

I don't think .040" of shims is going to change the geometry enough to hurt anything. I made some shims out of an old steel shim head gasket (.020" thick). Used 2 of those on each pedastal, with a 509 hyd cam, and never had a problem. Used to rev that 451 to 6000 RPM all the time! Bear in mind that with every .020" shim, you are reducing pre load by .040". Because you're getting .020 on the push rod side, and .020 on the valve stem side. You can always use the shims as an easy test fix. If it solves the problem, then you can get shorter push rods.

Makes sense to me. I reckon I'll get to fetching if you guys think it's ok to use them.
After all, I have two sets of dang pushrods already.

 

[Ski 61701]

Did you figure out what intake manifold is going to work for you clearance wise

 

[dvw]

The preload can be measured by bending various diameters of wire at a 90 degree angle. Tig and mig welding wire (common mig is .023",.030",.035",.040". tig .060") works well. Insert it between the retaining clip and piston. I would suspect .040"-.060" shim will get you in the ballpark. Don't worry about geometry at your level, it'll be close enough. The flat Mancini shims work fine. They will bend as you tighten the shaft. No need to try every pushrod at first. Get close with 2 shims and a pair of rocker. As for ovaling the iron intake. I used to do them with a round file by hand.
Doug

 

[1967coronet]

Hey, first time I've ever had to use that "ignore" feature on here.
Works nice.
Moving on....I appreciate all of you sticking with me here, more than you know.

Ed I got to say, I am impressed you did handle that with tact and was pretty darn gentile on him. Lots of folks have no idea when they have a boar coon in the tree. Hats off to you my old friend you are a class act.

 

[moparedtn]

Did you figure out what intake manifold is going to work for you clearance wise

Not for sure, nobody really answered that one - but based on what I've been able to read online and speak with a couple folks I know who use them, it seems either of the Edelbrocks is going to be ok I think.
Based on Edelbrocks' description of the RPM and "just" the Performer, it sounds like the regular Performer is more likely to work for me given this things' close to stock setup - the RPM is for higher up in rpms, apparently.

 

[moparedtn]

The preload can be measured by bending various diameters of wire at a 90 degree angle. Tig and mig welding wire (common mig is .023",.030",.035",.040". tig .060") works well. Insert it between the retaining clip and piston. I would suspect .040"-.060" shim will get you in the ballpark. Don't worry about geometry at your level, it'll be close enough. The flat Mancini shims work fine. They will bend as you tighten the shaft. No need to try every pushrod at first. Get close with 2 shims and a pair of rocker. As for ovaling the iron intake. I used to do them with a round file by hand.
Doug

*smacks forehead*
Ohhhhhhh! Ok, bell finally went off in my head. So sorry it took me so long to get it.
Yes, a wire gap gauge would also do the trick - I could just cut open the various size wire loops in one and use them.
Awesome.
Damn, docs said things would be different now. They weren't kidding.

I'll use these Comp pushrods to work with - they're the ones I got when the motor first bent an old factory one.

THANKS!

 

[1967coronet]

Not for sure, nobody really answered that one - but based on what I've been able to read online and speak with a couple folks I know who use them, it seems either of the Edelbrocks is going to be ok I think.
Based on Edelbrocks' description of the RPM and "just" the Performer, it sounds like the regular Performer is more likely to work for me given this things' close to stock setup - the RPM is for higher up in rpms, apparently.

I think the performer gives a little bit more hood clearance also, said to be a good off idle intake.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed I got to say, I am impressed you did handle that with tact and was pretty darn gentile on him. Lots of folks have no idea when they have a boar coon in the tree. Hats off to you my old friend you are a class act.

You're too kind, my friend. Back at ya.
No sense in getting into such nonsense with anyone on here - I'm not trying to tick anyone off and Lord knows life's too short.
I understand my thickheadedness is no doubt tiresome for folks to deal with.
I don't mean to be.