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What carb to choose? Mostly stock 440 GTX

moparedtn

When we want your opinion, we'll ask for it
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Ok, I've pretty much decided to sell my damn-near-new Holley 3310 750vac sec carburetor and go with either a factory-type Carter AVS or a newer Edelbrock.
Car is my '68 GTX 440 4-speed. The engine is pretty much bone stock, other than the slightly warmer Comp Cams Magnum 270 cam. Exhaust are headers and the ridiculous 3" duals the former owner installed with single chamber Flowmasters.

Recommendation time from you all, please...what carb do I replace the Holley with?
I want the car to behave like it is, which means a pretty much stock 440 GTX. Not looking for any trick race setups here since, well, it isn't much of a race car with 3.55's and stock motor.

What was the factory Carter AVS carburetor number for these? I remember also reading at one time that the Carter AVS was improved in 1970 for the 440's. True? Do I want one of those, then?
Is the newer Edelbrock the same carb? If so, which model?

I should be able to install, set mixture and idle speed and have the engine run normally on the street if I get the right carb on this thing, including when I plant my right foot.

Help?
 
I'm just curious as to why you want to trash the 3310 ?

Me too! I had a 780 vac secondary on a 72 400 that I had a comp cams 268 cam and it performed better than my 440 with a 750 holly. Maybe you just need to tune it . Power valve change or something.
 
This has been a long time coming, gentlemen. Feel free to read some of my previous threads.
Suffice to say, I'm ready to stick a fork in the Holley and try something else.
 
I'd look in to the edelbrock thunder series 800 cfm. It's basically a Carter AVS, but with the AFB 2 step metering rods and jets. Carter AVS used 3 step metering rods. 1812 is the number for the manual choke, you'll be able to use the stock divorced choke, 1813 for the electric choke. Be prepared to tune the carb, I had to replace the rods and jets in an Edelbrock AFB, but you may not have to. The 800 CFM is about stock size for a 440. I hope this helps.
 
Thanks, Poly. Yes, the Thunder seems to be pretty close to the original AVS (although 800cfm kinda spooks me).

I'm going to put the original Carter AVS numbers here so I don't have to go look them up again:
1968
4428 440 M/T
4429 440 A/T
4637 440 A/T & AC

1969
4617 440 M/T
4618 440 A/T
4640 440 A/T & AC

1970
4737 440 M/T
4738 440 A/T
4741 440 A/T & AC

1971
4966 440 A/T

From my research so far, Carter "improved" the AVS in 1970 and I know I don't want one past 1971 (they had some funky idle compensation something or other that was prone to failing).
Other than that, is it safe to assume any of these would work just fine?
 
There's also 4967 440hp m/t and 4968 440hp a/t for 1971. I think those two were claimed to be at 780 cfm from Carter. As far as the hot idle compensator, maybe someone else knows more about it. I was going to plug the port to eliminate any problems.
 
Maybe you would be better off having a carb built, or sending your carb out to be tuned to your engine.

In a lot of cases you can not just open a box and throw a carb on your engine, call promax tell him your engine specs and ask what he thinks you should do, maybe send him your carb or have him build you something he has. it will most likely be cheaper than buying a new carb...

you need to first get the proper carb, cfm, choke, secondary action, etc... Then you need the right power valve, jets, fuel pump and pressure, etc, etc, etc.
I have a few cars that I bought for such short money because guys didn't know how to set them up right, you need the timing right, all aspects of the carb right, and your motor will be running good. Switching between brands is not going to change a thing...
 
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I have a 4966 and reading some history in 71 a lot of cars were having fire problems with the Holley. Chrysler was changing over to Carter anyway and I believe a notice was sent out to replace Holley's with Carter. Anyways, mine runs well and I am not out to race or anything and I get really decent gas mileage to boot.
 
the edelbrock 750 will be very close to a stock 440 carb. as they come out of the box they are too rich for a stock application but are fairly easy to recalibrate. there are factory jetting tips in some of the old service manuals that would be a big help. the 750 edelbrock is identical in throttle bore and venturii size as a '67 440/375hp. the '68 and up 440/375hp had slightly larger secondary venturii. in my opinion the '69 avs are the best carbs, but will need more recalibration than the edelbrock 750.
 
I've ran Demons, Holleys, Quadrajets, Mortorcrafts and Carters and Carters are right there at the end for me. I ran an 870 Avenger last summer and it was a turd right out of the box but bumping from a 4.5 to 6.5 power valve and jumping up about 10 jet sizes had it running like a top. Gotta put the work in is all there is to it and take time to figure it all out...... frustrating!
 
Maybe you would be better off having a carb built, or sending your carb out to be tuned to your engine.

In a lot of cases you can not just open a box and throw a carb on your engine, call promax tell him your engine specs and ask what he thinks you should do, maybe send him your carb or have him build you something he has. it will most likely be cheaper than buying a new carb...

you need to first get the proper carb, cfm, choke, secondary action, etc... Then you need the right power valve, jets, fuel pump and pressure, etc, etc, etc.
I have a few cars that I bought for such short money because guys didn't know how to set them up right, you need the timing right, all aspects of the carb right, and your motor will be running good. Switching between brands is not going to change a thing...

Not what has happened in this particular case.
At all.
But thanks for taking the cheap shot and incorrect assumption anyways.
 
This has been a long time coming, gentlemen. Feel free to read some of my previous threads.
Suffice to say, I'm ready to stick a fork in the Holley and try something else.

I can't seem to find any of your previous threads about the Holley.
 
Not what has happened in this particular case.
At all.
But thanks for taking the cheap shot and incorrect assumption anyways.

Relax, I didn't mean to offend you, if I did I apologize, don't take my advice, f do I care, I was just trying to offer some help... good luck.. now I see how much patience you have, it must be the carb's fault, (now theres a cheap shot for you ;) )
 
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhem. The 850 Demon on mine has good street manners. No stumble, tune seems just right. Transition to 4 feels good. High teen mileage on occasion with no vacuum advance.
 
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhem. The 850 Demon on mine has good street manners. No stumble, tune seems just right. Transition to 4 feels good. High teen mileage on occasion with no vacuum advance.

Same here. I'm running an 850 Speed Demon (mechanical sec) at the moment that only needed a little tweeking to the power valve and air bleeds but works great now.
 
the edelbrock 750 will be very close to a stock 440 carb. as they come out of the box they are too rich for a stock application but are fairly easy to recalibrate. there are factory jetting tips in some of the old service manuals that would be a big help. the 750 edelbrock is identical in throttle bore and venturii size as a '67 440/375hp. the '68 and up 440/375hp had slightly larger secondary venturii. in my opinion the '69 avs are the best carbs, but will need more recalibration than the edelbrock 750.
Novice at the Edelbrocks here. Which model 750 is the one you're speaking of, the "standard" Performer or...?

I've spent enough time on that website to figure out only a couple things, like the Thunder ones are true AVS carbs but are like 800cfm, for example - sounds like a big ol' carb for a stock 440 to me.

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Relax, I didn't mean to offend you, if I did I apologize, don't take my advice, **** do I care, I was just trying to offer some help... good luck.. now I see how much patience you have, it must be the carb's fault, (now theres a cheap shot for you ;) )
Aye, and a better quality one at that.
"Don't half-*** it, son..." :)

Lookit, I coulda sworn you were one that replied to some of my other posts in regard to tuning the 3310, but I could be mistaken. If not, suffice to say there's been a LOT of tuning going on with the dang thing, based on straight up advice received here at FBBO as well as extensive time spent with the Holley tech support people.
I've got quite a collection of jets, power valves and what not as a result and to be honest, the car is fine between 1100 and 4000 RPM.
It could just be I got a lemon for all I know.
It could just be the gas we have around here is crap, regardless of the multiple brands (including "100% pure" stuff).
I have had to replace one flex line between the metal line from the tank and the pump, for example, even though it was new just a couple years ago - gas ate it up and separated inner from outer, no shiyat.

I just want to see if another carb makes things better - and after all, the eternal search for making our stuff better is a major part of the hobby, is it not?
I'm going to find out, but in typical Ed manner, I'm gonna research hell out of it and ask for anyones' opinion who has travelled in these same footsteps before me.
Just makes sense.

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I can't seem to find any of your previous threads about the Holley.
Tons of 'em, spanning all the way back to 2011. Most actually have "Holley" and some have "Holley 3310" specifically.
Still other threads that started out talking about ignition or whatever steered back to the Holley with time.

Can you tell I'm sick to death of fooling with this carb? :)
Damn thing is still spotless and like new. I'm gonna sell it to Seventy. :)

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Wanna sell the holley?
Now that you mention it.... :)

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I've ran Demons, Holleys, Quadrajets, Mortorcrafts and Carters and Carters are right there at the end for me. I ran an 870 Avenger last summer and it was a turd right out of the box but bumping from a 4.5 to 6.5 power valve and jumping up about 10 jet sizes had it running like a top. Gotta put the work in is all there is to it and take time to figure it all out...... frustrating!
Does "right there at the end" mean last choice, I presume?
Yep, current PV in the 3310 is the 65 (half the vacuum @ idle roughly, as Holley tech said) after trying lower ones.
Winds up, that's the one that comes in a 3310 to begin with.
Carb came with 70 (!) primary jets when it was supposed to have 72's stock - I have 75's in it now.
Accelerator is snug without actuating @ idle. Mixture screws set for best idle RPM AND best vacuum.
Carb is absolutely spotless inside and out, has the purty "pewter" shiny finish. All ports are clear, gaskets perfect.
Makes a darn good looking devil sitting on the stock intake.

Further, let me state for the record all you holley fans, that I have been a huge FAN of the 3310 for several decades now. I've never had issues at all, heck most of the time I've never even had to change any internals, when using them on stock 440's - every one of the half-dozen or so 440 cars I've owned over the years (and even a couple 383 'Bees) LOVED this carb!
This one is a first. Hate giving up on it, but you can only fool with something for so long until it's time to move on, lest you lose motivation - and I don't have the time left on this planet for that.
So....Holley goes away, to be replaced by ????
 
I have not replied to any of your other threads... Heres my best advice..

Call Promax, I just got off the phone with him, he actually has one of my 6packs on the dyno right now, tell him what you have, and either send him that carb or buy one off of him ready to bolt on. He will run the carb on a motor similar to yours, tune it, and ship it, so you bolt it on and DONE. He has sent me carbs that just bolt on and run, don't touch another thing!!!! PLUS , he will send you a carb for $350 or so all done....

I think its worth a phone call--- 317 484 1451 he will take care of you, I hate to say there are only a handful of guys in the hobby that go above and beyond, he is one of them.. He does great work..
 
I have not replied to any of your other threads... Heres my best advice..

Call Promax, I just got off the phone with him, he actually has one of my 6packs on the dyno right now, tell him what you have, and either send him that carb or buy one off of him ready to bolt on. He will run the carb on a motor similar to yours, tune it, and ship it, so you bolt it on and DONE. He has sent me carbs that just bolt on and run, don't touch another thing!!!! PLUS , he will send you a carb for $350 or so all done....

I think its worth a phone call--- 317 484 1451 he will take care of you, I hate to say there are only a handful of guys in the hobby that go above and beyond, he is one of them.. He does great work..
Thank you. I seriously appreciate the effort on my behalf.
BTW, does he just do carbs? Is he that fella on eBay that actually builds each carb, bench flows it, makes a video of that exact carb on a dyno engine running so you can see it in action?

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What do you all think of this one? Seems like dang near an exact application:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?96136-carter-avs-rebuilt-for-69-440#post910310136
 
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