What front suspension to use on 1967 Satellite

[Budnicks]

Repost, to put #'s on stuff,
so I didn't have to type it all again
real individual prices, kit form it's cheaper as you see above

Added comments;
I have the Double adj. SPC UCA's instead of the QA1's too,
just my personal preference for on the car adjustabilities
laying back the caster for drag racing {several degrees if need be} or
laying over/in or out the camber for cornering {several degrees if need be}
or ride height to an extent,
I'm a tad bit limited because of using OE style Torsion Bars,
instead of coil-overs

I personally would think about fabbing up some
{Lamb Struts maybe} Struts/w-adj. springs for a serious ride height adjt.,
instead of control arms, front steer rack, if I was to do it all over again...

$240 each SPC
View attachment 369284

$550 QA1
View attachment 369285

$220 QA1
View attachment 369286

$460 QA1
View attachment 369288

QA1 it's $2200 ballpark,
{$1799 in Stage 3 Handling kit 2/27/2017 not with SPC, it has QA1's UCA's}
that is pretty reasonable, for the front
{if you can't make your own, want bolt on stuff}
it's not anywhere near the $3,500-$5k-$7K, like some can be,
you can still use OE steering boxes or OE/OS Torsion bars
with certain QA1 K Members too,
have them add the tabs for Sway bars on the LCA's
add a aftermarket sway bar $200, in it for about than $2400-$2500
{or less kit form} add what ever shocks etc.
that is a big part of the cost especially if you go Coil over,
prices are all over the map

$300 for Mopar Performance 1" or 0.960" Torsion bars,
cheaper maybe if you shop some

If you stay with the torsion bars {not saying you have to}
but you can go with a cheaper/more affordable shock &
still have great front suspension adjustability
@ an affordable/reasonable price...

In the scheme of things it's downright affordable IMO

 

[Kern Dog]

When I see the tubular K members I wonder about torsional resistance. The stock K member was thicker and obviously heavier but it seems that a lighter duty K member would be more likely to allow the rails to flex. When XV Motorsports were first in business, they had a chassis table to test the rigidity of their products. I would like to know what their findings were. I think they developed the chassis stiffening parts that US Cartool now makes. I'm talking about the "horseshoe" shaped brace that runs under the radiator, the triangle braces that run from the cowl over to the shock mounts, the subframe connectors contoured to fit against the floors with no gaps, etc. XV was also selling an aluminum K member setup. Maybe with additional reinforcements, the loss of beef in the tubular K member isn't a problem?
Last year I helped a buddy install a Magnum Force tubular setup in his kids 64 Valiant. The welds were nice. They included down bars that welded to the cowl and the frame rails near the core support. These had tabs to sit over the shock mounts to add strength where all the weight would be loaded into the coil over shocks. The car has a wider turning radius than before. The suspension travel is shorter, resulting in a rougher ride when the suspension tops out. It handles about the same. The setup with brakes and shipping was right at $5000. He does not drag race or road race. I just don't see the point for it in most cases.

 

[dukeboy_318]

When I see the tubular K members I wonder about torsional resistance. The stock K member was thicker and obviously heavier but it seems that a lighter duty K member would be more likely to allow the rails to flex. When XV Motorsports were first in business, they had a chassis table to test the rigidity of their products. I would like to know what their findings were. I think they developed the chassis stiffening parts that US Cartool now makes. I'm talking about the "horseshoe" shaped brace that runs under the radiator, the triangle braces that run from the cowl over to the shock mounts, the subframe connectors contoured to fit against the floors with no gaps, etc. XV was also selling an aluminum K member setup. Maybe with additional reinforcements, the loss of beef in the tubular K member isn't a problem?
Last year I helped a buddy install a Magnum Force tubular setup in his kids 64 Valiant. The welds were nice. They included down bars that welded to the cowl and the frame rails near the core support. These had tabs to sit over the shock mounts to add strength where all the weight would be loaded into the coil over shocks. The car has a wider turning radius than before. The suspension travel is shorter, resulting in a rougher ride when the suspension tops out. It handles about the same. The setup with brakes and shipping was right at $5000. He does not drag race or road race. I just don't see the point for it in most cases.

Well maybe that's the case with Magnum Force stuff (which is a VERY poor brand to use as your measuring stick for aftermarket K frames became they have gotten a bad reputation for failing due to too thin of material and other design flaws anyway). However, take the Gerst setup that's in my dart, it actually is designed with MORE travel than factory and designed to keep suspension geometry optimized during travel. I know a couple others that do this as well, RMS, HDK etc.

As for your earlier post about weight savings, I actually weighed the 2, factory K and suspension (not counting the torsion bars) and the full Gerst, I was just under 100 lbs lighter with brakes. Now, most of that came from the power steering and the steering linkages as well as the strut arms. My Gerst kit has the powersteering rack, so power steering to power steering, it's a HUGE weight savings. The manual rack is about 3.5 pounds lighter than the power rack. Here's some of the numbers from what I posted over on FABO from my own scale.

Manual Rack: 3.5 lbs (with hiems(1 lb ea) added: 5 lbs)
Power Rack: 7 lbs (with heims (1 lb ea) added: 9 lbs)
Mopar Manual Steering Box: 9 lbs
Mopar Power Steering Box: 46 lbs


Notice I did not include the hoses or the pump as it is a wash since I'll be running those regardless. If you want, I can post the full chart of each component broken down? That's the weight savings just in the steering boxes

As for the load/torsional differences,vertical/horizontal etc, I will admit, some kits concern me more than others. Really, there's only 3 that properly account for this. The RMS Altkeration, the Gerst Suspension and the HemiDenny. All 3 of those address and designed their kits to account for this. I've yet to see a failure from any of those 3 brands, the rest I cannot say that about. Magnum force being one of them, they simply use the factory un-reinforced shock mount to mount the coil over assembly, very bad idea. Stay away from brands that do that.

Now as to the K frame itself, it comes down to structural engineering and physics. The factory K frame is a stamped piece of flat steel, spot welded a few inches apart to turn it into the K it is. the factory K frame flexes a TON under heavy load and power. This is why some people gusset and perimeter weld the entire thing(adding a couple pounds but worth it). It is a proven fact that a round, hollow tube is stronger than a box formed by tack welding. Also, take into account that kits like the RMS or the Gerst use 3/16 and 1/4 in thick materials, triangulate everything, I bet the frame rails flex before those tubed K frames.

As for turning radius, lock to lock, I can turn my dart just a little bit tighter than factory. So to me, that's a wash. There are some kits that are much wider, especially those that keep the factory mopar spindles

I have nothing against guys that want to keep Torsion bars, heck I'm doing it with the Polara, but there are trade offs. Which is true of EVERY SINGLE type of suspension. The question truly becomes what you want the suspension to do and what you want it to not do. There is plusses and minuses to each type. The key is setting the car up to where the front and rear suspensions work together, which is where a TON of people go wrong. Often times you'll see a guy show up with a coil over kit on the front but running mopar factory leafs with adjustable shocks or SS springs or mono-leafs etc. The problem with that is those items were designed mostly for the drag strip and for use with torsion bars and factory front suspension geometry in mind. This drives me nuts everytime i see a car show up with an RMS, Gerst or HDK but running an essentially stock style suspension in the back, it's just plain dumb. Gotta have a suspension set up both front and rear that works together and this in my opinion is where the torsion bar suspension has the advantage, at least over the guys only upgrading the fronts and staying leafs in the back.

Now do what I did and what some others have done, upgrade the rear. I have an entire Gerst setup, front/rear. This gives me 4 corner weight adjustment, spring rates that complement each other, an adjustable roll center to allow me to fine tune it to the front roll center, rear sway bar etc.

 

[aeon280]

I also am working on a 67 b-body (coronet) and have decided to go with the Q1 and SPC stuff up front. I agree with Kern_Dog on the factory design aspect. Ive driven various Mopars throughout the years and never seen a torsion bar setup fail. So I say, improve but dont try and fix what aint broken. Now out back I am still thinking what direction to go. Improve the stock with Hotckis TVS or go the fourlink route. Im curious to those of you with 68 up b-bodies if you know what difference there is between 68-70 and 66-67 frames? Ive seen some fourlink kits that say they fit 66-70 and others only fit 68-70.

 

[drobertson]

Well maybe that's the case with Magnum Force stuff (which is a VERY poor brand to use as your measuring stick for aftermarket K frames became they have gotten a bad reputation for failing due to too thin of material and other design flaws anyway). However, take the Gerst setup that's in my dart, it actually is designed with MORE travel than factory and designed to keep suspension geometry optimized during travel. I know a couple others that do this as well, RMS, HDK etc.

As for your earlier post about weight savings, I actually weighed the 2, factory K and suspension (not counting the torsion bars) and the full Gerst, I was just under 100 lbs lighter with brakes. Now, most of that came from the power steering and the steering linkages as well as the strut arms. My Gerst kit has the powersteering rack, so power steering to power steering, it's a HUGE weight savings. The manual rack is about 3.5 pounds lighter than the power rack. Here's some of the numbers from what I posted over on FABO from my own scale.

Manual Rack: 3.5 lbs (with hiems(1 lb ea) added: 5 lbs)
Power Rack: 7 lbs (with heims (1 lb ea) added: 9 lbs)
Mopar Manual Steering Box: 9 lbs
Mopar Power Steering Box: 46 lbs


Notice I did not include the hoses or the pump as it is a wash since I'll be running those regardless. If you want, I can post the full chart of each component broken down? That's the weight savings just in the steering boxes

As for the load/torsional differences,vertical/horizontal etc, I will admit, some kits concern me more than others. Really, there's only 3 that properly account for this. The RMS Altkeration, the Gerst Suspension and the HemiDenny. All 3 of those address and designed their kits to account for this. I've yet to see a failure from any of those 3 brands, the rest I cannot say that about. Magnum force being one of them, they simply use the factory un-reinforced shock mount to mount the coil over assembly, very bad idea. Stay away from brands that do that.

Now as to the K frame itself, it comes down to structural engineering and physics. The factory K frame is a stamped piece of flat steel, spot welded a few inches apart to turn it into the K it is. the factory K frame flexes a TON under heavy load and power. This is why some people gusset and perimeter weld the entire thing(adding a couple pounds but worth it). It is a proven fact that a round, hollow tube is stronger than a box formed by tack welding. Also, take into account that kits like the RMS or the Gerst use 3/16 and 1/4 in thick materials, triangulate everything, I bet the frame rails flex before those tubed K frames.

As for turning radius, lock to lock, I can turn my dart just a little bit tighter than factory. So to me, that's a wash. There are some kits that are much wider, especially those that keep the factory mopar spindles

I have nothing against guys that want to keep Torsion bars, heck I'm doing it with the Polara, but there are trade offs. Which is true of EVERY SINGLE type of suspension. The question truly becomes what you want the suspension to do and what you want it to not do. There is plusses and minuses to each type. The key is setting the car up to where the front and rear suspensions work together, which is where a TON of people go wrong. Often times you'll see a guy show up with a coil over kit on the front but running mopar factory leafs with adjustable shocks or SS springs or mono-leafs etc. The problem with that is those items were designed mostly for the drag strip and for use with torsion bars and factory front suspension geometry in mind. This drives me nuts everytime i see a car show up with an RMS, Gerst or HDK but running an essentially stock style suspension in the back, it's just plain dumb. Gotta have a suspension set up both front and rear that works together and this in my opinion is where the torsion bar suspension has the advantage, at least over the guys only upgrading the fronts and staying leafs in the back.

Now do what I did and what some others have done, upgrade the rear. I have an entire Gerst setup, front/rear. This gives me 4 corner weight adjustment, spring rates that complement each other, an adjustable roll center to allow me to fine tune it to the front roll center, rear sway bar etc.

I wouldn't say magnumforce is bad. I know a couple local guys who have those suspensions on their cars, and they love it.

 

[dukeboy_318]

I wouldn't say magnumforce is bad. I know a couple local guys who have those suspensions on their cars, and they love it.

I can't say they're good either. not with all the reports and images of the suspensions failing. Maybe its just a QC issue, regardless, when I looked into them, the reports are plentiful enough that I walked away as fast as I could.

 

[Max440]

I can't say they're good either. not with all the reports and images of the suspensions failing. Maybe its just a QC issue, regardless, when I looked into them, the reports are plentiful enough that I walked away as fast as I could.

 

[Max440]

i agree - too much bad press - why take the chance - plenty of others with good reports - I lean toward Grest for the value and performance

 

[HYRDGOON]

i agree - too much bad press - why take the chance - plenty of others with good reports - I lean toward Grest for the value and performance

I went Magnum force and looking at the "Transformer" sheetmetal K Frame I have I can't understand how there would be any issue with twist failure. Welds look great and it's stout. Guess I'll see for myself

 

[Malicious]

Any links to the grest suspension? Nothing comes up I google...

 

[Max440]

Any links to the grest suspension? Nothing comes up I google...

it is spelled Gerst Suspension google it - its on there but gotta spell the name correctly

 

[drobertson]

I can't say they're good either. not with all the reports and images of the suspensions failing. Maybe its just a QC issue, regardless, when I looked into them, the reports are plentiful enough that I walked away as fast as I could.

Have you seen them in person? They're incredibly stout, and I have a hard time believing that one of their systems would break. Maybe with modifications by the customer... but I would have no fear running a system of their's on my Charger. Not saying I will, but I would definitely do it if I had some free change.

 

[dukeboy_318]

Have you seen them in person? They're incredibly stout, and I have a hard time believing that one of their systems would break. Maybe with modifications by the customer... but I would have no fear running a system of their's on my Charger. Not saying I will, but I would definitely do it if I had some free change.

yes sir, Ive even driven a car with one in it. I also toured their facility as I'm not far from them (20 miles).