what to expect out of a 440???

[68chargerguy]

Heads are stock 73' model. Not sure what the correct code is? But they have new lifters, springs, valves etc. I have an edlebrock intake with a 650 Edlebrock carb. The cam is a crower 32917. tires are 245/60/15/ and I will have to get back to you on with the compression. the Car starts and drives fine and has good throtle response but just seems hella slow. I'm sure the car will go a 150mph but I just don't want to take all day to get there. I'll start with a new rear end and I'll stop just before I pull the motor back out.

 

[Cranky]

That's a pretty small cam for a 440....was it degreed in or just align the dots? Do you have the cam card? If so, where does the intake open at the recommended centerline? If it's what I think it is, you should have a ton of PSI on your compression test.....and if it is what I think it is and you don't have a lot of cranking PSI, it's not installed in the right place. BTW, the Crower site says 9.5-1 for best performance and that 440 might be 8.5-1....http://www.crower.com/mopar-350-440-b-torque-beast-hyd-278h.html

 

[68chargerguy]

Cranky you lost me at dereed or align the dots. Below is the cam card. Let me know what you think.

Part Number/Work Order Number 32917
Engine Application 350-440 MOPAR
Grind Number 278H
ADVERTISED CAMSHAFT SPECIFICATIONS:

INTAKE: Duration: 278º Lift: .422 Clearance Hot: .000
EXHAUST: Duration: 288º Lift: .446 Clearance Hot: .000

The specifications listed above are based on a rocker arm ratio of 1.50 IN
1.50 EX

RECOMMENDED VALVE SPRING INFORMATION:

Part # 68302X1-16 Single X Dual Triple
Approximate spring pressure: valve closed: 075/090 LBS.
valve open: 250/265 LBS.


The information below is for degreeing cam only. Correct only at .050" tappet lift.
INTAKE Opens: -6.0 ATDC
Closes: 30.0 ABDC
EXHAUST Opens: 43.0 BBDC
Closes: -9.0 BTDC

LOBE SEPERATION 112º


Duration at .050" Intake: 204
Exhaust: 214
LOBE LIFT Intake: .281
Exhaust: .297

 

[moparpoor]

Here we go.The heads you have are small valve smog heads with really crappy chambers.The cam you have is way to small even for a cruiser.The carb is also to small.Actually you have a great parts list for a rebuild for the motor.The end results is the same as stock.1973 440 made less than 300hp and you have rebuilt it to stock configuration.You can try a 509mp cam,a good dual plane intake,and a 750 cfm edelbrock or holley carb.The heads and lack of compression are still going to hold it back a great deal.Cheap upgrade for big improvement 440 source heads,509cam,800edelbrock,with a dual plane intake.The tried and true 915/906 heads,509 cam,17/8 headers,750cfm carb and dual plane intake is a great combo that will put you in the range of 12second to 13 second qrt times.This will require a rear gear of 4.10 to 3.55 and a larger converter.

 

[Cranky]

All Chrysler heads starting in 67 had the same valve size. Yeah, the 73 heads are smog heads but they are not that far off of the other open chamber big block heads. You can find the casting number on top of the second intake runner after you remove a valve cover from the driver's side. You can pull the passenger side off but the number will be on the second runner from the back. Your cam is what's considered or used to be considered as an RV type cam. It builds a lot of cylinder pressure in the low rpm ranges and is intended for low compression engines. Sort of fools the engine in thinking it has more compression and is why the power band runs out early in the rpm range. On degreeing in the cam...it's a process used to put the cam in a timing location and knowing exactly what that is. The 'dot' method of cam timing is used by many with stock type cams. The cam and crankshaft sprockets have dot's on them that you align when installing the timing chain but this methods is not always accurate and the cam can be off a few degrees and worse. Using a dial indicator and a degree wheel is the best way to install a cam. I'm betting your cam is a few or more degrees retarded. Cams that are advanced moves the power peak to a lower point in the rpm range and cams that are retarded moves the peak to a higher rpm range but a cam such as yours, needs to be pretty much on the money or a few degrees advanced to work well. If it's retarded some, your power will be low.

 

[Cranky]

Btw, get that compression test done...it's one of the trouble shooting tests that should be done to find out what's wrong. I would think it should be in the 140-150 range if not a bit more. I ran a low compression 400 years ago with a cam similar to yours and that thing pushed a 3/4 ton pickup into the low 15's at the track. Heavy vehicle, tall tires and gearing that wasn't that great. Yeah, low 15's ain't that fast but it would make the stock 5.0 Mustangs think twice in the late 80's early 90's. It was just as fast as my 92 5.2 Dakota with 3.90 gears....

 

[68chargerguy]

well crap!!! I just got this thing put together. I guess that is what I get for not knowing anything about dodges when I started. Why does it cost so much to learn a dang lesson??? I know where I can get some 68/69 model heads. Will it actually say 915/906 on the intake runner and if so which one is the best?

 

[YY1]

Changing the heads MAY have a SMALL effect, especially if you already have 452 castings. You could mill them to get better compression. Also, your low RPM cam and high RPM gears are fighting each other.

It's almost free to degree the cam. Do that first. 2nd, I'd go back to a 26 inch or smaller tire. 3rd would be getting a lower gear. 3.23/3.55/3.77

 

[Cranky]

well crap!!! I just got this thing put together. I guess that is what I get for not knowing anything about dodges when I started. Why does it cost so much to learn a dang lesson??? I know where I can get some 68/69 model heads. Will it actually say 915/906 on the intake runner and if so which one is the best?

It isn't just Dodges...it's ALL engines. Yes, the heads all have casting numbers on them. Actually, in two places but you can't see one of the numbers once the heads are bolted on. 1967 was the last year for closed chambered heads and from then on, the open chamber ones were about 90cc from the factory. The closed chambered heads ran around 80cc. The books will all say less but in the real world and from measuring tons of them, these numbers are what it is if they are still stock as cast from the factory. The 915 is the last 3 numbers of a 7 digit casting number. It should say 2708915 and is a closed chambered head. And get that compression test done. Anyone who works on their own engine should have a compression tester in their tool box and if you don't have one, get one. They are not expensive....

 

[68chargerguy]

well I just finished my compression test on basicaly stock 73' model heads and after a few minor 2nd and 3rd degree burns Here are the results
1- 148
3-148
5-140
7-140
2-125
4-135
6-120
8-130

 

[Cranky]

125 to 148.......you have other problems to worry about. Squirt some 30 wt oil into the low cylinders and see if that brings up the numbers some. If it does, you have rings that have not seated or may be broken. How many miles does the rebuild have on it? If it doesn't come up, you may have valves that are not sealing. Your test should be closer to each other. You did the test with the throttle wide open and all plugs out, right.

 

[68chargerguy]

Rebuild probably has around 50 miles on. I did have all the plugs out but throttle was not wide open. One other question, does the engine actually have to be hot before you begin this task? I tested it right after I drove it this afternoon and I actually melted a pair of mechanics gloves on the exhauset manifold. Just wondering since it took me about an hour to test all cylinders and the ones towards the end were the ones with the low numbers. Might be more even if all the cylinders were cool?

 

[Cranky]

It's usually best to be at operating temps but just being warm should be ok and you usually get a better read with the throttle wide open or at least close to it. When the engine is warm, everything is expanded to the way it normally runs. If you installed normal replacement rings, they probably haven't had time to break in yet while moly rings break in very quickly.

 

[66 coronet deluxe]

Here we go.The heads you have are small valve smog heads with really crappy chambers.The cam you have is way to small even for a cruiser.The carb is also to small.Actually you have a great parts list for a rebuild for the motor.The end results is the same as stock.1973 440 made less than 300hp and you have rebuilt it to stock configuration.You can try a 509mp cam,a good dual plane intake,and a 750 cfm edelbrock or holley carb.The heads and lack of compression are still going to hold it back a great deal.Cheap upgrade for big improvement 440 source heads,509cam,800edelbrock,with a dual plane intake.The tried and true 915/906 heads,509 cam,17/8 headers,750cfm carb and dual plane intake is a great combo that will put you in the range of 12second to 13 second qrt times.This will require a rear gear of 4.10 to 3.55 and a larger converter.

Go with one of these combo's if your bottom end is OK. I have a stock 78' 440 bottom end with milled / ported / oversize valve 915 closed chamber heads. Single plane intake, 750 vac holley, headers and mopar .474 lift hemi grind cam. Rear was 294 gears and I could incinerate the one tire (open diff going to 410 spool now). I havent taken it to the track yet but I know it will kill my uncles 2005 mustang GT off the line with crap gears. With 440 cubes you should have serious power with the right combo. My next cam will also be the 509. No worries about a few minor mistakes, we all been there. You can sell or trade your used stuff. I buy used parts all the time.

 

[68chargerguy]

So really all i need to do is spend a little more time and money on this car.... lol, my wife is gonna love to hear that... I really do appreciate all the help guys. thanks.

 

[hunt2elk]

I agree with everyone else about a rear gear change. I just changed out my 3.23 for a set of 3.91. What a world of difference on takeoff. I can imagine your 2.76 is hard to get going.

 

[darkhorse]

not to be a smart *** here, but maybe others can learn something. But before every build I do, whether its a 318 to a hemi, to doing a rear end .. Do your research first, put pen and paper together, gather your intel on what you have and what your are trying to achieve.any special tools you might need,torque specs etc..... It will save you time/money and frustration.
my 2cents

DH

 

[Cranky]

Guys, with PSI numbers ranging from 125 to nearly 150, the engine needs some attention first imo. PSI numbers usually don't vary that much even on standard rings after a rebuild. Something isn't right in the engine and that should be addressed first before trying to make it act better with different gears. Like what has been mentioned before, a healthy torque monster shouldn't have problem eating the hides with a highway gear behind it. With the cam that's in this engine, the numbers should all be up around the 150 mark.....

 

[hunt2elk]

Guys, with PSI numbers ranging from 125 to nearly 150, the engine needs some attention first imo. PSI numbers usually don't vary that much even on standard rings after a rebuild. Something isn't right in the engine and that should be addressed first before trying to make it act better with different gears. Like what has been mentioned before, a healthy torque monster shouldn't have problem eating the hides with a highway gear behind it. With the cam that's in this engine, the numbers should all be up around the 150 mark.....

Cranky is right. Get your motor running strong before changing gears.

 

[72Satellite440]

Hope things work out on ur engine 68 charger
I read somewhere that reg psi for a 440 should be around 170- Am i wrong?