Who has NEVER had a cam or lifter go bad?

[Kern Dog]

Why not NOS lifters? They're out there...

I am opening my mind to other options, THIS being one of them.
It is tempting to have any flat tappet lifter that I use to have that flat spot machined in them like these:

I might look to see if Howards has these for Mopars.
Crower does but they are out of stock:

 

[nitro_rat]

I am opening my mind to other options, THIS being one of them.
It is tempting to have any flat tappet lifter that I use to have that flat spot machined in them like these:

Everything's a trade-off. Dumping extra oil out of the lifter galley onto the cam will increase windage on the rotating assembly.

Has anybody mentioned using lighter valve springs for break in? The "modern" grinds tend to have faster ramps and more aggressive profiles which are harder on everything. Reducing spring pressure (and RPM) during break in will help these parts "wear in" before they "wear out."

 

[Kern Dog]

As far as I can remember, the "lighter springs for break-in" tactic has been suggested for some cams. That goes back a long time.
None of the camshafts that I have ever installed came with that suggestion. I have always used a spring that meets the guidelines in the 440/495 and the 383 in Jigsaw.
None of my other cars got fitted with camshafts that were all that radical. I have a 280/474 in the 360 in this one:

This one has a basically stock 1979 360 from a van but it has a reproduction 340 cam:

 

[ckessel]

This was an interesting read from Johnson. Worth checking this out.
https://toplineauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Lifter-Application-Catalog.pdf

 

[dodgeboy440]

WHO has never had a cam or lifters go bad?



Some members suggested to have flat tappet lifters REfaced. I've wondered if the metallurgy is different in new lifters, would it make sense to take OLD OEM lifters and have them resurfaced.



I do have enough used lifters here to do 3 engines. ALL came out of engines that had no cam or lifter problems.
There was a video awhile back where a cam grinder (Could have been Oregon cams?) not only resurfaced lifters but also machined a flat area down the outside of the lifter body to induce oil flow to the lobes. This flat area allows small amounts of the oil rushing through the oil galleries to turn DOWN toward the cam lobes.


I'm still interested in changing cams to get a combination that works better for me.
I keep struggling with the decision of flat tappet or roller.
The roller option just feels like it costs too dang much for my comfort level. Breaking it down, a cam swap adds up to well over $2000 when you include everything.
What leads me back to a flat tappet is that I don't personally know many people that have had cam failures with their flat tappet hydraulics. For all the horror stories that I have heard, I can only recount ONE engine that all of my friends have had that lost a cam.
I personally know of at least four FBBO members that have great performing cars and they have flat tappet hydraulics and use proper oil.
I have a FT hydraulic in Jigsaw:

View attachment 1800205

View attachment 1800206

View attachment 1800207

...I have one in a 360 Dart, a 440 Power Wagon, a 72 Duster with a 360 that has a repro 340 cam....
All of them run strong but most are stock compression, iron head, soft valve spring medium performance engines.
The engine in the red car....

View attachment 1800208

...is a bit more fancy. 9.8 compression, 495 cubes, aluminum heads and 2" headers. I'd never run a stock cam in this engine but this wild Lunati peaks at a point where the heads don't flow and the Tremec won't shift. I'm looking to step it down to move the power range back down to where it will be useful.
Part of my ongoing struggle is with money.
No matter how much I have, I always wonder if spending more is a waste or if it is a wise move.
This Lunati cam was used in this build because I already had it and kept the lifters in the correct order from the last time I used it.
I had the MP '528 solid cam before this one and while it was a good performer, even it left me wanting more sometimes. The 528 was dropping off while this Lunati was still going strong.
This 5 speed will not shift if I'm revving much over 6000 rpms and the Lunati makes the most power from 3000 rpm to well above 6000.
I need something that makes power between 2000 and 6000 rpms.

Sooooooooo

I e ran quite a few cams over the years from
Direct Connection , Sig Erson , Isky , Crane ,
And Did Not Encounter Any Cam or Lifter
Failures . Even with Rhodes Lifters ….

I have always used STP in addition
To Quality Oils , Amalie , Royal Purple , Mobil 1 , Rotella , & lots of regular LUV …….
I used to buzz my Hilborn Injected 426 Hemi to 9grand , it had A DC590Cam & Lifter Setup , worked fine . Amalie 20-50 & STP….
I also have 325000 on a 05 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 Hemi & No Ticky - Ricky….. Synthetic Oils & Moly supplements, STP …..
& Lotsa LUV ….. Open the Hood Daily & LOOK!…..
Mopar2ya!
John

 

[Kern Dog]

I have always used STP in addition
To Quality Oils....... Amalie 20-50 & STP….
I also have 325000 on a 05 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 Hemi ….. Synthetic Oils & Moly supplements, STP …..

Do you mean this stuff?

There is a forum member that uses this stuff:

 

[dodgeboy440]

Do you mean this stuff?

View attachment 1800297

There is a forum member that uses this stuff:

View attachment 1800298

Do you mean this stuff?

View attachment 1800297

There is a forum member that uses this stuff:

View attachment 1800298

Yes ! STP , In All Its Blends ..
Back in the 70’s I was working in a gas station / repair shop & an the shop mechanic
Was teaching us kids about engines & friction…..AND How Oil works….. yes , I was curious! He opened a can of motor oil & a can of STP . Grabbed a flat tip screwdriver from his toolbox & dipped the tip in oil and asked us to hold the tip of the screwdriver between our fingers .. we all could without it slipping from our fingers …..
THEN
He Did the same thing with STP & no one could hold the screwdriver between their fingers like they did with the oil . It always slipped out of our grip ….
Well well well , lesson #1 in the coefficient of friction …..Now Extrapolate That With Metals & motion …..
Do the math Einstein!
Mopar2ya!
John

 

[not so famous bob]

Yes ! STP , In All Its Blends ..
Back in the 70’s I was working in a gas station / repair shop & an the shop mechanic
Was teaching us kids about engines & friction…..AND How Oil works….. yes , I was curious! He opened a can of motor oil & a can of STP . Grabbed a flat tip screwdriver from his toolbox & dipped the tip in oil and asked us to hold the tip of the screwdriver between our fingers .. we all could without it slipping from our fingers …..
THEN
He Did the same thing with STP & no one could hold the screwdriver between their fingers like they did with the oil . It always slipped out of our grip ….
Well well well , lesson #1 in the coefficient of friction …..Now Extrapolate That With Metals & motion …..
Do the math Einstein!
Mopar2ya!
John

Einstein ? I have a friend that has an low 8 second , hi 7`s , 350 SBC vega , he broke a crank one time , I helped him tear it down , was running the old Kendall oil (if I remember right ) , we could not pull the push rods out by hand it was so slick . The crank failure was not oil related...
Had an uncle that used to blend oil for Sunoco oil co. , he could tell u more about oil than u want to hear , he said slick 50 will wear down and lose its viscosity , which is all it is to start with...

 

[Armyvet25]

no cam failures, but have had hydraulic lifter failures, probably due to over revving, I understand it's hard to get decent inexpensive cam/lifters today due to poor quality machining, gotta spend mo money

 

[Krooser]

STP, Lucas and similar products are viscosity index improvers meant to guard against oil shear breakdown. Really important since anything with sprockets and chains has to deal with oil shear.

The days of using one oil in your daily, hot rod, lawn mower etc. are long gone.

My suggestion is to look up The motor oil geek on youTube. Lake Speed will edumacate you on the subject.Yes he's a geek... no he's not everyones favorite but you cannot deny his knowledge and experience.

And ONLY use HyLift Johnson lifters... and reduce that spring pressure.

 

[Kern Dog]

The argument for moving forward with a roller cam is that with it, you get a radically lowered risk of failures.
I am not living by the skin of my teeth here, I can scrape together the money to do it, it just stings a bit because I haven't personally felt the benefits to justify the costs.

 

[66fs]

The argument for moving forward with a roller cam is that with it, you get a radically lowered risk of failures.
I am not living by the skin of my teeth here, I can scrape together the money to do it, it just stings a bit because I haven't personally felt the benefits to justify the costs.

I don't think you can beat the reliability of a solid chunk of steel, solid lifters. I grew up with HP 273s and solids were standard. I have engines with a lot of miles on them, but OEM rollers seem to do the same with the same good care. I don't run the the lift you do or the spring pressures either. Pros and cons for everything.

 

[Ceedawg]

I don't think you can beat the reliability of a solid chunk of steel, solid lifters. I grew up with HP 273s and solids were standard. I have engines with a lot of miles on them, but OEM rollers seem to do the same with the same good care. I don't run the the lift you do or the spring pressures either. Pros and cons for everything.

Not sure if the rule has changed (haven’t kept up with them) but NASCAR required only a solid lifter in ALL makes of engines. Those engines would last the 500 grueling miles at high rpm (i imagine each had big springs on them). That’s the reason Chrysler made the mushroom lifters, to make high lift long duration cams.

 

[dodgeboy440]

Einstein ? I have a friend that has an low 8 second , hi 7`s , 350 SBC vega , he broke a crank one time , I helped him tear it down , was running the old Kendall oil (if I remember right ) , we could not pull the push rods out by hand it was so slick . The crank failure was not oil related...
Had an uncle that used to blend oil for Sunoco oil co. , he could tell u more about oil than u want to hear , he said slick 50 will wear down and lose its viscosity , which is all it is to start with...

Overrevving…..pushing the component past its design matrix to discern its failure point .
Now You know !
Simple eh ….

 

[dodgeboy440]

no cam failures, but have had hydraulic lifter failures, probably due to over revving, I understand it's hard to get decent inexpensive cam/lifters today due to poor quality machining, gotta spend mo money

Yep…..
Mo Munny $$$$$$$$$$
But hey if ya got it spend it. !
You might as well enjoy it !

 

[nitro_rat]

And ONLY use HyLift Johnson lifters... and reduce that spring pressure.

I've seen some bad machining on Johnson HyLift lifters recently. I believe that there are some other outfits using USA made Johnson Hylift lifter bodies but doing their own machine work to a higher standard. I believe Lunati was one of these, but I guess they're out now. Maybe Melling? I'm sure there are others as well. Bottom line, I wouldn't trust ANY lifter because of the brand. Unbox each one, measure, inspect, and treat it as an individual...

 

[John Milner]

I've had fairly decent luck over the past 20 years or so. The only time I lost a cam was when there was another problem that caused it. I had a set of heads that the bronze guide liners were not properly sized. This was in a 440. The engine would get up to operating temperature and the valve stem would to stick to the guide. I ruined two camshafts (Hughes and Lunati) before I caught the mistake. After another set of heads machined/assembled correctly and another cam/lifter set, the break in went fine and is still running today. I have never used anything other than stock replacement style solid/hydraulic lifters in any build. Lately, I have been using NOS or Johnson's lifters when possible.

I would say that I have assembled and broke in around 25 engines over the last 20 years ranging from Mopar, Pontiac, Studebaker and Big Block Chevy and the only failure was the one mentioned above. I can't really blame that on the cam/lifter sets, either. That one is on me for not double checking the work that was done on the heads. I have used Crower, Lunati, Summit Racing, Crane, Comp, Elgin, Speed Pro, and Mopar Performance over the years.