What's it Worth 1970 HP2 440

[fastmark]

Looks like you have some good parts anyway. Finding a 70 hp block that will run at std is rare. That means it did not have many miles on it when retired. But you have an excellent starting point. Those 2266 pistons are for a 69 compression height. That’s why they have those closed chamber heads installed. You put the 2355 pistons in and you better check the head to piston clearance. Chances are it won’t work even with that thick head gasket. With todays gas and iron heads, over 10.0 compression can cause detonation. It still looks like it has non hp rods and a 70 hp balancer. It will vibrate. Is the flywheel neutral balance. Did it come with the motor?

 

[sixpkrt]

I was talking with a good friend of mine about this engine and sent some pictures to him. His comment was "I don't think that engine was ever fired".
I tend to agree with him after looking more closely at the connecting rods (stamped 1851835). I put my scope in there and saw an ink stamp with the words "Reconditioned for TRW 11". If this engine was fired, the ink stamp would've been washed away by now.
The car and parts I picked up along with this engine was a father/son project that started in 1981, and then a 2nd father/son project that began in 2003 and was never finished. At some point over the past 44 years this engine was built.

 

[dodgeboy440]

I was talking with a good friend of mine about this engine and sent some pictures to him. His comment was "I don't think that engine was ever fired".
I tend to agree with him after looking more closely at the connecting rods (stamped 1851835). I put my scope in there and saw an ink stamp with the words "Reconditioned for TRW 11". If this engine was fired, the ink stamp would've been washed away by now.
The car and parts I picked up along with this engine was a father/son project that started in 1981, and then a 2nd father/son project that began in 2003 and was never finished. At some point over the past 44 years this engine was built.


View attachment 1838904View attachment 1838899

Looks like new ! Or Fresh !!
I like it !
Check it over good , verify torque specs , lube it up good & Show us the DYNO Sheet !
Mopar2Ya!

 

[sixpkrt]

Looks like new ! Or Fresh !!

Agreed, and with the standard pistons in there this block may have never been bored.
With the cost of a rebuild today, I'm way ahead of the curve if I wind up keeping it, especially since everything that went into this engine build back in the day was made in the U.S.A.
I have the feelers out for the owner with the original E Body to contact me on several places on the web, but nobody has stepped up yet.

 

[autoxcuda]

So, with standard lighter rods and a thick balancer (for heavy rods)

Will this motor be balanced?

Does it show indications of the current rotating assembly being taken to a balance shop?

Good job of opening it up and finding out what’s really in there.

 

[sixpkrt]

Unfortunately, there is no paperwork on the build, but sometime in its history, somebody took the time to reassemble everything, which more than likely was a shop, but I don't want to assume anything. I know for sure; the previous owner didn't assemble the engine.
As noted above, there are ink stamps on the connecting rods, reading "Reconditioned for TRW 11"
Any idea what "11" is referring to? Could it indicate 11 to 1?

 

[autoxcuda]

Unfortunately, there is no paperwork on the build, but sometime in its history, somebody took the time to reassemble everything, which more than likely was a shop, but I don't want to assume anything. I know for sure; the previous owner didn't assemble the engine.
As noted above, there are ink stamps on the connecting rods, reading "Reconditioned for TRW 11"
Any idea what "11" is referring to? Could it indicate 11 to 1?

Inspectors stamp. Like a subcontractor that reconditioned rods for TRW to sell. Some sort of remanufacturing place. I can’t see a local rebuilder using a stamp like that.

No way a rod would know what compression it would be used for.

 

[sixpkrt]

It still looks like it has non hp rods

The original HP connecting rods were included in a milk crate with all the other parts I picked up.

 

[autoxcuda]

Wonder if it’s just a reconditioned/ reman. Long block? Would explain the small valve heads.
But would they do a hone job on a low wear block? Or just bore everything?

And it’s got a roller timing chain. I would think reman places wouldn’t do that.

But really, it is what it is. You identify all the parts, inspect/record bearing size condition.

Then see what head options are out there match the piston for reasonable compression.

Info for whomever end user is to make decisions with.

 

[sixpkrt]

And it’s got a roller timing chain. I would think reman places wouldn’t do that.

True on that, but most people I know that have rebuilt their own 440 or had somebody else build it, opt for the double roller chain/sprocket set.

Would explain the small valve heads

The 1.60" exhaust valves on the 516 head have been upgraded to the 1.74" valves already. That's a plus.

 

[autoxcuda]

The original HP connecting rods were included in a milk crate with all the other parts I picked up.

Ok. So this wasn’t some random store bought long block. Backstory doesn’t really matter anyways... Again, it is what it is.

 

[autoxcuda]

True on that, but most people I know that have rebuilt their own 440 or had somebody else build it, opt for the double roller chain/sprocket set.

The 1.60" exhaust valves on the 516 head have been upgraded to the 1.74" valves already. That's a plus.
View attachment 1838998View attachment 1838997

So the only thing visually on the outside that would not look 1970 HP stock would be the markings at the end of the 516 head vs a 906 head?

What compression would the 516 head and those TRW piston net out at?

Any idea on the cam specs?

Seems like viable motor for an original 1970 U-code or V-code that's missing motor. They can add 4 bbl or 6-pack intake as needed.

 

[fastmark]

From the pictures I see, it has the factory balance job. Most shops use a smaller drill to balance the crank and they are usually not in the same spot as factory. I would rebalance the assembly since it’s got so many unknowns. Don’t use that balancer that on it now and use a neutral flywheel. The 516 heads have smaller ports than a 906 or the 67 HP 915 so I’m not sure that bigger exhaust valve helps you that much.

 

[autoxcuda]

From the pictures I see, it has the factory balance job. Most shops use a smaller drill to balance the crank and they are usually not in the same spot as factory. I would rebalance the assembly since it’s got so many unknowns. Don’t use that balancer that on it now and use a neutral flywheel. The 516 heads have smaller ports than a 906 or the 67 HP 915 so I’m not sure that bigger exhaust valve helps you that much.

yea, but that balancer is what makes the 70-71 HP motor visually special.

The buyer/value for that block wants the HP stamp and the balancer showing.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

yea, but that balancer is what makes the 70-71 HP motor visually special.

The buyer/value for that block wants the HP stamp and the balancer showing.

Well.... Than either it needs the big rods.... On I've seen guys drill the back side of the offset (Sixpack) balancer to make it neutral balance... Don't run it as is, it'll slowly destroy itself while always having an annoying vibration

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Looks like you have some good parts anyway. Finding a 70 hp block that will run at std is rare. That means it did not have many miles on it when retired. But you have an excellent starting point. Those 2266 pistons are for a 69 compression height. That’s why they have those closed chamber heads installed. You put the 2355 pistons in and you better check the head to piston clearance. Chances are it won’t work even with that thick head gasket. With todays gas and iron heads, over 10.0 compression can cause detonation. It still looks like it has non hp rods and a 70 hp balancer. It will vibrate. Is the flywheel neutral balance. Did it come with the motor?

Mark, I think your confused.. The 2355 isn't a domed piston (that's the 2295) and the 2266 isn't a 69 C/H height piston... The 2355 is a flat top with a 2.061 C/H ( the 69 piston) which puts it .021 on the hole if the block is truly 10.725 which it's usually taller so further in the hole..

The 2266 is 1.991 C/H which puts it .091 in the hole....

516 heads un-cut start at about 84-86 cc, the blueprint number is 72cc but we know that ain't so...

2266 with the usual numbers gives you 8.7-1 C/R
2355 with the usual numbers gives you 9.4-1 C/R

I do agree that balancer & those rods together are a problem...

 

[69Coronetrt]

The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Hamtramck Built Cars Selection Page

Was what I was told that this block came out of a Dodge Charger wrong?
According to this link, it came out of an E Body.
If you own this car, PM me.
View attachment 1833702

1970 Chargers were only built at the St. Louis plant meaning the VIN would be 0G.

For 1970, the only big bock cars built at Hamtramck (0B) were E bodies meaning Cudas and Challengers.

By bracketing 0B262520 by known VINs 0B262463 and 0B262565, we find that this block was originally installed in a 'Cuda.

 

[fastmark]

I’m familiar with the 2355 flat top and 2.061 CH. The last build I did used Race Tech pistons but they have the same CH of 2.061. It put my deck height only -.004. That’s pretty close for a closed chamber head unless you use the .054 head gasket. I used Steath heads with an 84cc chamber and I think it was 10.2 or 10.4 depending on which head gasket I used. I’d have to go back and look at my notes to be exact. I’m building another one in the next month or so just like it.

My point is, Mopar never used a 2.061 CH piston and closed chambered heads together. And they have no valve reliefs either. Be careful and measure everything before you run that combo.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I’m familiar with the 2355 flat top and 2.061 CH. The last build I did used Race Tech pistons but they have the same CH of 2.061. It put my deck height only -.004. That’s pretty close for a closed chamber head unless you use the .054 head gasket. I used Steath heads with an 84cc chamber and I think it was 10.2 or 10.4 depending on which head gasket I used. I’d have to go back and look at my notes to be exact. I’m building another one in the next month or so just like it.

My point is, Mopar never used a 2.061 CH piston and closed chambered heads together. And they have no valve reliefs either. Be careful and measure everything before you run that combo.

Really... Sure looks like it has valve reliefs to me... The 2266 does not, the 2355 does...

 

[fastmark]

You are correct. They have valve reliefs.