1st time out = new best

[LemonWedge]

It was a nice day in the Northwest yesterday, and I made it out to Pacific for a few TnT passes. The big LemonWedge Plymouth ran well, and posted a new best of 11.25 @ 118.6. Backed up by an 11.30 and a pair of 11.32’s as the afternoon got warmer and the humidity climbed a little.
Some may recall that I went to a set of 1.6 rockers and upgraded my pushrods this winter, which were the only changes. Looking back at similar weather from last year, the change would seem to be worth a full tenth and a full MPH+. Best 60’ was 1.548, also a new best by a .01. All in all I’d say my theory was correct, which was that my heads which were CNC ported last year weren’t being taken advantage of in full with my current cam.
I am still dealing with some lash adjustment issues. I had the old setup dialed; the new setup seems to be moving, and I’m not sure why. Break-in period??? I wouldn’t think so. Does a 1.6 ratio setup need more lash than a 1.5 setup on the same cam? I’m beginning to think so, which would make sense. Also went from a stainless steel bushing-on-shaft rocker, to an aluminum full roller. Is there growth of some kind to be figured in the rocker itself? Wouldn’t think so.... Lots of learning still to do, but it felt good to make a few passes. 2019 is here..... first race is next weekend. Here we go!

 

[gtxracer]

It truly was a nice day here and it appears that you had a successful day. Way too go, Gary! Good numbers...
Bob

 

[Haugljoe]

Track is minutes away from my house, hoping to take my car out on it and test it out when its done (not a track car just want to see what it can do), I have heard they let people run the track for like 40 bucks right?

Great numbers man
good luck next week!

 

[67MPRFAN]

Great news about the new best and seeing how you can still drive on the street is awesome

 

[davek]

thats got to make you happy.

 

[Tex013]

well done , great result
yes you do have to set valve lash different for the 1.6 rocker

Tex

 

[BSB67]

Does a 1.6 ratio setup need more lash than a 1.5 setup on the same cam? I’m beginning to think so, which would make sense.

Always good to standardize the track results to standard conditions to know the actual difference.

For lash, you'll need to determine what is best. +/- 0.006 from recommended. Use manufactures recommended lash at the lobe for determining your starting point.

If you installed HS rockers, they will be more like 1.65.

 

[dvw]

Congrats on the runs. Is the lash changing from a base cold setting? It shouldn't after its first outing. Set it cold. Check it hot. Recheck again cold. Once the cold settings settle in (usually after the first lash check cycle) adjust the cold setting to mimic what you desire hot.
Doug

 

[PRHeads]

How about a brief synopsis of the progression of the combo.
What the original combo was, what it ran...... what you changed, and what the best ET was as a result of the change...... up through where you’re at now.

I know you’ve been picking away at it for a while now...... I think people could learn by seeing that progression.

 

[Budnicks]

congrats

 

[Dodge 330]

Awesome!

...now add some spray!

 

[LemonWedge]

How about a brief synopsis of the progression of the combo.
What the original combo was, what it ran...... what you changed, and what the best ET was as a result of the change...... up through where you’re at now.

I know you’ve been picking away at it for a while now...... I think people could learn by seeing that progression.

“Picking away at” is absolutely correct, Dwayne. I’ll be as quick as I can going through the combo and the tweaks I’ve made over the years, but this will take a few:
Base combo:
Built in in spring 2010 on a shoestring budget, it’s got a lot of “inexpensive” parts that have stood up pretty well (knock-knock). Here was the original parts combo:

• 230 casting 400 block @ .040 over
• forged RB crankshaft, -cut down to fit the B-block
• Iconn flat-top pistons
• CAT H-beam rods
• All balanced up, bob-weight is 2314
• Heads are early casting (84cc) Stealths, OTB with upgraded locks & retainers.
• Cam is an Engle KV-3 lobe custom (spec’d by Jeff Patterson, a guy that was running some F.A.S.T. Stuff at the time). Square pattern;109-cl, 252* & .573 liftwith 1.5 ratio.
• Bushed steel roller-tip 1.5 rockers.
• Performer RPM intake
• Holley 830 DP
• Hooker 1-7/8” headers w/ 3” dumps leading to a street exhaust to the bumper.
• MSD Digital 6+ box with a Mallory mag-pickup dizzy.
• 727 w/ transgo shift kit.
• 11” cheap-O ACC converter
• 8-3/4” with 3.91 gears
• Stock suspension with slapped bars.

That’s how it started. The first year was a learning process and the best the car went in 2010 was 12.39 @ 110 iirc. The cheap converter had been behind the previous 383, and it worked okay with approx. 300 hp. It created all kinds of problems behind the new mill though. After ballooning, smacking the flexplate bolts against the block, and spreading aluminum through my transmission, I finally got the hint and invested in a good converter.

• 1st major adjustment: Dynamic 9-1/2” custom built converter.

The converter alone would prove to be worth over a quarter of a second, and also kept the transmission much cooler. At about this time I believe, I also rebuilt the transmission with a Turbo Action LBA forward manual valve body. Along with a few small carburetor adjustments I got the car down into the 11’s (11.92 @ 111) like this before breaking the 8-3/4 not once, but twice.

• 2nd adjustment: rebuilt the 8-3/4” with some good parts: steel main-caps, spool, 35-spline axles, backbrace. Re-installed it on Calvert Split mono’s & cal track bars.

The 8-3/4 has survived since then, although I have replaced the 3.91’s with a set of 4.10’s along the way. The Calvert system yielded about another 2 tenths. A couple of years later I added Calvert shocks all the way around, replacing the cheap summit shocks I had on it before. This was a HUGE change. Suddenly the car left like a race-car. The body separation was gone and the 60’ times dipped significantly with that change. The car was into the 11.60’s & 114 at this point.

• 3rd major adjustment: Bigger, better, newer carburetor.

In 2015 I really got more serious about setting the car up primarily for racing, and invested in a new Holley HP 1000cfm annular booster carb. This change was worth a solid tenth over the previous 830. Over the next year or so, we got the times down to around 11.50..... decision time. Didn’t take much time to decide to embark on a rollbar project.

• Next major adjustment: head porting & prep.

In 2017, I sent my trusty Stealth heads, that had really proved to be a great investment thus far, to Bob at Modern Cylinder Head for full CNC porting, a good valve grind, and a slight decking. When I put it back together, I also port-matched my RPM intake, and modified the plenum significantly, cutting and blending the divider and adding a 1/2” open spacer. I’ll admit I had hoped for more out of this, my largest investment since building the engine. Admittedly I added 65 lbs to the car at the same time with the roll-bar, But the car only went about .15 faster. Most in the know thought that was about right, but I was a little disappointed. I guess I’m getting to the point where big chunks on the time slip are harder to find. The best the car ran in 2018 was 11.32 on a mine-shaft air day. For the most part, it was an 11.40 car last year.

• Latest adjustment: 1.6 ratio rockers

I had great experience with my Procomp 1.5 bushed stainless rockers. So I gave Procomp another chance and bought a set of their new DNA series rockers in 1.6 ratio, and matched them up with a set of 440-Source 3/8” pushrods. Valve-lift now checks in at .610 lift. The car seems to be reacting well to this change as all aspects of the timeslip improved last weekend. I seem to be struggling with lash settings, I hope I get a handle on that soon.

It’s been a fun project and I’m having a blast racing. I hope to get good at it someday soon. It is encouraging to know that I’ve managed to carve over a full second off the ET a little at a time. Along the way there have obviously been countless other small adjustments, but this post hits on all of the big ones I believe.
Next on the wish-list is to start addressing the cars weight. It currently weighs in at about 3875 in the beams. If you made through all of this and are still reading.... thanks for endulging me, hope you can learn from my steps; now get along with your own project.

 

[Mike Gaines]

How about a brief synopsis of the progression of the combo.
What the original combo was, what it ran...... what you changed, and what the best ET was as a result of the change...... up through where you’re at now.

I know you’ve been picking away at it for a while now...... I think people could learn by seeing that progression.

NOT TO HIGH JACK THE THREAD...(but I guess I am, lol)
I started at 12.19@ 110.69 ( July 24, 2014) and ended up at 10.047 @ 131.54 on Feb 24, 2019. Took over 4 years at lots and lots of money to get there but it was worth every penny.
All with my 3800lb Coronet....but...I have now concluded that with my current setup with no more changes the 10.047 is as fast as its gonna go. But...another $1500 to $2000 to swap out my Cal Trac setup for LADDER BARS will easily get me into the 9 second category.
PS: I am waiting for Mike (Malex) to get to the track this spring with HIS ladder bar setup to see how much help it will give him, which I am sure will be a lot.

 

[Mike Gaines]

“Picking away at” is absolutely correct, Dwayne. I’ll be as quick as I can going through the combo and the tweaks I’ve made over the years, but this will take a few:
Base combo:
Built in in spring 2010 on a shoestring budget, it’s got a lot of “inexpensive” parts that have stood up pretty well (knock-knock). Here was the original parts combo:

• 230 casting 400 block @ .040 over
• forged RB crankshaft, -cut down to fit the B-block
• Iconn flat-top pistons
• CAT H-beam rods
• All balanced up, bob-weight is 2314
• Heads are early casting (84cc) Stealths, OTB with upgraded locks & retainers.
• Cam is an Engle KV-3 lobe custom (spec’d by Jeff Patterson, a guy that was running some F.A.S.T. Stuff at the time). Square pattern;109-cl, 252* & .573 liftwith 1.5 ratio.
• Bushed steel roller-tip 1.5 rockers.
• Performer RPM intake
• Holley 830 DP
• Hooker 1-7/8” headers w/ 3” dumps leading to a street exhaust to the bumper.
• MSD Digital 6+ box with a Mallory mag-pickup dizzy.
• 727 w/ transgo shift kit.
• 11” cheap-O ACC converter
• 8-3/4” with 3.91 gears
• Stock suspension with slapped bars.

That’s how it started. The first year was a learning process and the best the car went in 2010 was 12.39 @ 110 iirc. The cheap converter had been behind the previous 383, and it worked okay with approx. 300 hp. It created all kinds of problems behind the new mill though. After ballooning, smacking the flexplate bolts against the block, and spreading aluminum through my transmission, I finally got the hint and invested in a good converter.

• 1st major adjustment: Dynamic 9-1/2” custom built converter.

The converter alone would prove to be worth over a quarter of a second, and also kept the transmission much cooler. Along with a few small carburetor adjustments I got the car down into the 11’s (11.92 @ 111) like this before breaking the 8-3/4 not once, but twice.

• 2nd adjustment: rebuilt the 8-3/4” with some good parts: steel main-caps, spool, 35-spline axles, backbrace. Re-installed it on Calvert Split mono’s & cal track bars.

The 8-3/4 has survived since then, although I have replaced the 3.91’s with a set of 4.10’s along the way. The Calvert system yielded about another 2 tenths. A year later I added Calvert shocks all the way around, replacing the cheap summit shocks I had on it before. This was a HUGE change. Suddenly the car left like a race-car. The body separation was gone and the 60’ times dipped significantly with that change. The car was into the 11.60’s & 114 at this point.

• 3rd major adjustment: Bigger, better, newer carburetor.

In 2015 I really got more serious about setting the car up primarily for racing, and invested in a new Holley HP 1000cfm annular booster carb. This change was worth a solid tenth over the previous 830. Over the next year or so, we got the times down to around 11.50..... decision time. Didn’t take much time to decide to embark on a rollbar project.

• Next major adjustment: head porting & prep.

In 2017, I sent my trusty Stealth heads, that had really proved to be a great investment thus far, to Bob at Modern Cylinder Head for full CNC porting, a good valve grind, and a slight decking. When I put it back together, I also port-matched my RPM intake, and modified the plenum significantly, cutting and blending the divider and adding a 1/2” open spacer. I’ll admit I had hoped for more out of this, my largest investment since building the engine. Admittedly I added 65 lbs to the car at the same time with the roll-bar, But the car only went about .15 faster. Most in the know thought that was about right, but I was a little disappointed. I guess I’m getting to the point where big chunks on the time slip are harder to find. The best the car ran in 2018 was 11.32 on a mine-shaft air day. For the most part, it was an 11.40 car last year.

• Latest adjustment: 1.6 ratio rockers

I had great experience with my Procomp 1.5 bushed stainless rockers. So I gave Procomp another chance and bought a set of their new DNA series rockers in 1.6 ratio, and matched them up with a set of 440-Source 3/8” pushrods. Valve-lift now checks in at .610 lift. The car seems to be reacting well to this change as all aspects of the timeslip improved last weekend. I seem to be struggling with lash settings, I hope I get a handle on that soon.

It’s been a fun project and I’m having a blast racing. I hope to get good at it someday soon. It is encouraging to know that I’ve managed to carve over a full second off the ET a little at a time. Next on the wish-list is to start addressing the cars weight. It currently weighs in at about 3875 in the beams. If you made through all of this and are still reading.... thanks for endulging me, hope you can learn from my steps; now get on with your own project.

Mr. Lemon Wedge:
I am pleased to see that you suffer from the same progressive Mopar Illness that many of us on this site are inflicted with.
I really like your postings and good luck this year...……………..

 

[67MPRFAN]

Gary your doing great things with your car once you find out what the motor wants ad far as lash you should see another new best keep up the good work..... BTW you are in knowing helping me with my car lol

 

[Dodge 330]

Very cool to see the progression!

 

[PRHeads]

118.6@3875 shows 495 on the moroso chart.
I figure a car that is working reasonably well, running in “decent” air should be able to run within 10% of what the engine dyno power is.
Working it the other way, that would mean your motor could be upwards of 550hp on an engine dyno.

I actually think it would dyno a bit higher than that...... which means there might be a little speed left in it.

What does the converter flash now and what were the 60’ times on that last track outing?

 

[LemonWedge]

Sorry I’m late getting back to this....
Converter flashes to about 3800, maybe 4000. I’m not absolutely sure as my eyes are always on the tree at that moment, and I don’t have a data-logger. I’m pretty sure it’s just under 4K. 60’ was typically around 1.560 last year when it was running 11.40’s. This last time out it went a best 60 of 1.548, with a couple of 1.553’s.

From behind the wheel, I always feel like the car wants more RPM at each shift, but when I’ve short shifted it, it goes faster. Years ago I was shifting it at 6700, but I’ve learned it seems to go fastest when I shift at 6200. My take is that because I run a dual plane intake, that big gob of torque is what moves this tank and that seems to be down below 5k. It traps at around 6500.

I’ve ofter wondered how much I may be giving away with the RPM intake. Someday I’d like to throw an M1 on it and see if there’s anything there. Would love to hear your further thoughts, Dwayne.

 

[PRHeads]

My gut feeling is that you don’t have enough stall to take advantage of a single plane manifold.
It’ll likely 60’ worse, and you’ll never get it back.
Of course, there’s really only one way to know.

You’re getting to the point now where the gains are going to come harder and harder.

What do you run for wheels and tires?
Diameter of the rear tires?

Overall, I think that combo is working pretty well considering it’s still a heavy street car that’s not running a lot of cubes.

 

[dvw]

From behind the wheel, I always feel like the car wants more RPM at each shift, but when I’ve short shifted it, it goes faster. Years ago I was shifting it at 6700, but I’ve learned it seems to go fastest when I shift at 6200. My take is that because I run a dual plane intake, that big gob of torque is what moves this tank and that seems to be down below 5k. It traps at around 6500

If your running a Turbo Action VB or equivalent. You'll find that the 1/2 takes about 500-600 rpm on the data logger before it completes the shift. 2/3 is about 300-400. so your 6700 is more like 7200.
Doug