440 budget build what do you think?

[Bb70charger500]

budget, and mopar don't go together . I've seen a lot of guys buy a mopar and go after the word. budget,and they fail , not trying to put you down if you like the car build it stock for now and later as you can pick up another motor and build it the way you want that way you can enjoy the car and drive it instead of haveing a pile of parts and no cash because the motor took it all.
I've been in your place before I wanted a fast street car for cheap I started with a charger and I got half way threw the motor and ran out of cash ,it adds up quick . Anyways I didn't pay attention to the older guys at the time and I took a nice driver appart ,I lost interest and sold it off ,bought a 79 trans am and made a fast street car out of it with change to spare. So 15 years later I'd rather have a old pig that go's down the road at its own pace then a Pontiac ,Chevy,Ford,so one .
Take your time do it right and drive the hell out of the old 440 .
Good luck on your choice

 

[kjalltrac]

Been around mopars for about 16 years and know that you can´t compare mopar to chebbys when it comes to money.
This is a true budget build for being a mopar and I always make sure I have the founds to complete a build/project before even starting one.
No fancy thing about this build, the most expensive on this engine will be the intake and the cam kit.
total spend on engine work: about 357 us dollar (reground crank)

Hoping having the engine in the car and started during April.

- - - Updated - - -

Head recipe:
452 1976 heads
stock valve sizes
pocket ported with Mopar templates
port matched with intake
milled 0,0433" (1,1mm)
backcut valves

 

[kjalltrac]

Milling the intake surface.

 

[Challenger340]

If you are going to re-use the stock low-pop stock Pistons.... and you are removing the Pistons from the Rods for re-sizing with the ARP Bolts anyways, you may wish to consider re-installing the stock Pistons "backwards".... tangs to the rear.... to take advantage of the reduced friction.
Factory Pistons, even the low-pops, have the Pins "offset" approximately 5 degree's from center for quieter running operation, albeit at the expense of more parasitic wall friction.
Reversing them on the Rods goes the other way, and seeing you are trying for performance with lesser parts, everything will help.

 

[kjalltrac]

Well, it´s up and running now. Have to swap the vacuum canister on the dizzy and tune ignition and carb.
the 205/75-14 will be short lived.
Will order 15" steelies and 275/60-15 M&h drag radials.
So far so good.

 

[kjalltrac]

You can get 35 grams off the L2355F by changing the pins for a start.
Ordering the P1215 federal mogul pins will yield 35 grams by itself over the L2355F/L2295F pins.... the other 10-15 grams is doable on the piston itself.

The CompCams old standby XE284H will go to 550/550 Trq hp with ported Eddy's on a non-Stroker regular 440, been there done that lots.
I can put up some Dyno Sheets if you want.... but no secret here, Head Porting is the key.
Good luck with the project.

Did some more research and got this:
My current combo: stock smogger pistons 806gr, stock pins 226gr TOTAL 1032gr
L2355F combo: 2355 pistons 858gr, Je series 51 pins 170gr TOTAL 1028gr
Only 4gr difference.

 

[kjalltrac]

Did some ignition tuning today, removed the fat spring in the dizzy( stock 70s electronic and mp orange box).
Initial timing 15deg, total 40deg at 2200-2500rpm. Works good, just need to put the holly 850dp and arf meter on.
The trans shifts at 5800-6000rpm (tf2-kit)

 

[Meep-Meep]

Actually, budget and building a MoPar engine do go together! Of course it depends on your expectations of power, but if someone just wants a good running street car that will live forever you can't beat a BB MoPar! Let's run through the list of what you get out of every engine you find:

Strong blocks
Forged rods
Forged cranks (not hard to find)
Good heads (not hard to find - 915, 906)
Stable valve train
Good oiling

Every OE 68-70 440 has the best parts available from the factory. No special 4 bolt main or "special" heads. They are all good. Put a hemi grind (or equivalent) cam, a torker intake, a set of headers and a performance advance curve and you have a great street engine.

These days people seem to need huge power numbers and that's where it runs off the rails money wise. Also one must see through the facade of the "trick" component at a very high price when often a good (and much cheaper) factory part will do. A lot of smoke gets blown up people's butts by aftermarket companies so if you want to save money you need to think, research and rely on some proven info from people who know.

 

[HT413]

Actually, budget and building a MoPar engine do go together! Of course it depends on your expectations of power, but if someone just wants a good running street car that will live forever you can't beat a BB MoPar! Let's run through the list of what you get out of every engine you find:

Strong blocks
Forged rods
Forged cranks (not hard to find)
Good heads (not hard to find - 915, 906)
Stable valve train
Good oiling

Every OE 68-70 440 has the best parts available from the factory. No special 4 bolt main or "special" heads. They are all good. Put a hemi grind (or equivalent) cam, a torker intake, a set of headers and a performance advance curve and you have a great street engine.

These days people seem to need huge power numbers and that's where it runs off the rails money wise. Also one must see through the facade of the "trick" component at a very high price when often a good (and much cheaper) factory part will do. A lot of smoke gets blown up people's butts by aftermarket companies so if you want to save money you need to think, research and rely on some proven info from people who know.

I agree - especially if you're patient. I'm into my 451 with stealth heads for about $4k for a pretty decent performance street build. If I kept the 906's, we're down to $3k. This is assuming that I have no cracks (haven't had it checked yet), but can you really build a chevy 454 for much less than that with forged internals and making in the neighborhood of 500 horsepower and torque?

 

[Dodge 330]

I agree - especially if you're patient. I'm into my 451 with stealth heads for about $4k for a pretty decent performance street build. If I kept the 906's, we're down to $3k. This is assuming that I have no cracks (haven't had it checked yet), but can you really build a chevy 454 for much less than that with forged internals and making in the neighborhood of 500 horsepower and torque?

Yep, under $2,600.00 here to build my basic 440 with 906 heads. I've upgraded since then but the big 440 is a torque monster and cheap to build/readily available. Lots of motor home cores out there!

 

[kjalltrac]

I think i have about 1700dollars in the 440 at the moment. The shipping costs to sweden has gone throu the roof over the past year.
Chevy parts are pretty much in stock at every auto store here.
I did all the headwork and block prep my self, only the crank regrind i had to pay for, around 340 dollar.

 

[383man]

I agree about a budget 440. My old 440 was a budget build that used 906 heads I ported and I traded for KB pistons that gave me 10.0 comp with the 906 heads milled some. Stock reconditioned rods and the MP .557 cam. Had a Holley Street Dominator intake I picked up at Carlisle and a used 850 DP. It worked nice and ran as fast as 11.49 @ 116 in my 3700 lb 63 Sport Fury. Ron

 

[dieseldazzle]

Not many motors you can take and put forged slugs, good valve springs in and can live to make and take decent power even when adding some artifical atmosphere

http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/mmo82001.html

- - - Updated - - -

Not many motors you can take and put forged slugs, good valve springs in and can live to make and take decent power even when adding some artifical atmosphere...made 657 hp and 742 tq at the wheels

http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/mmo82001.html

 

[HT413]

I agree about a budget 440. My old 440 was a budget build that used 906 heads I ported and I traded for KB pistons that gave me 10.0 comp with the 906 heads milled some. Stock reconditioned rods and the MP .557 cam. Had a Holley Street Dominator intake I picked up at Carlisle and a used 850 DP. It worked nice and ran as fast as 11.49 @ 116 in my 3700 lb 63 Sport Fury. Ron

Exactly, Ron. I think most people look at a Summit catalog and say, "dang, Chebby parts are so much cheaper", but other than bearings, rings, cam, etc., very few parts need to be bought new unless you are going for an all out race setup.

 

[kjalltrac]

Have a bug to sort out. Engine pulls hard upp to about 4500-5000 rpm, then it loosing power.
It doesn't behave like its on a rpm limiter, it just loosing power.

Have an afr meter and it gets fuel, so that´s not the issue.
The pushrods sits a little deep in the lifters, so I have tried install aluminum 0,02" shims under the rocker shafts. Made no difference what so ever.
Next step is to swap the mp orange box for a msd sport compact I have (same as 6a except for color).
Does anyone have had trouble with the orange box like this?
Using HP manifolds and only 2 1/4" exhaust systems, maybe it´s to restrictive?

 

[mentor70]

i had issues with the orange box fouling plugs alot, switched to the chrome box, problem solved.

 

[Hemirunner]

I swore off the MP ignitions years ago. MSD 6AL is a great street ignition. Just be sure to ditch the ballast resistor with an aftermarket coil.

 

[kjalltrac]

Hedman 78030 along with 3" exhaust system and x-pipe and a msd 6a ignition box will hopefuly solve my reving problem.

 

[kjalltrac]

Update
Installed the msd 6a ignition box and welded the advance t-bar today.
20 deg initial and 40 deg at 2000rpm.
The engine pulls much harder after 4500 rpm and I'm very happy with the tune right now.
The Mp orange box was the reason that it would not rew properly after 4500 rpm.

 

[Matrix2]

Balancing is $800 in Sweden? Wow! I just paid $155 at a local, well respected, racing shop. Switched to SRP aluminum pistons, used existing LY rods.