505 Stroker woes, comp lifter failure, hammered rockers

[Jung]

Wondered if I might ask the collective's advice on some problems I'm having? I'm running a not too aggressive lift Comp Cam hydraulic roller pushing Harland Sharp Rockers in an Indy EZ headed, 505 stroker RB. Within less than 400 miles of getting the engine running, I experienced a big loss of power over 4k and rough running. I've recently had a chance to tear down the top end and it seems like all the lifters failed. The heads of the adjusters have been hammered flat and the rollers for the valve tips no longer spin freely. The adjusters settings vary wildy on both sides, some screwed in almost below the locknut, others with barely a thread showing underneath. There is no similarity for any of the cylinders, they are all different. Seems like whoever put it together had a hell of a time setting the lash and didn't spot an underlying problem with bad lifters? Anyone had a similar problem?

 

[Jung]

Here's a pic of some of the rockers.

 

[747mopar]

"Whoever put it together" is the most troubling part of your post. Sounds more to me like someone just really botched it up good. Hydraulic lifter reliability does seam to be on a downward trend, after my second set I demanded a new solid lift cam and lifter set and never looked back. That sounds more like someone not knowing what they were doing.

 

[Jung]

The pushrods don't look as bad as they might do, the cups are pretty hammered but the lifter end is realtively OK. It was a crate motor from a reputable shop. I've never set up Hyd lifters before but that sort of variance in adjustment can't be normal right?

 

[dieseldazzle]

Is that a 5/16 pushrod cup in a 3/8 ball?

 

[Garys1969RR]

I much prefer a solid roller to a hydraulic roller cam. Just too many inherent problems to the hydraulic set up. And too many reported problems. I also prefer a solid cam to a hydraulic, because then you know exactly what your lash is at when you set it. With a hyd cam, your plunger is moving up or down in the lifter body, so it can be hard to tell when you are at zero lash. The only thing holding the plunger up is a tiny spring. More experienced engine builders can and do successfully use adj rockers with a hyd cam, but you really have to know your stuff. Use a solid lifter cam with adj rockers and your life will have fewer headaches. I just put a solid roller Voodoo in my 440, and it has been working great! Pay close attention to setting valve lash. Use the EOIC method. It works good for me.

 

[Jung]

Yup - I talked myself out of a solid roller which was stupid. I'll have to measure the adjuster and cups when I get back down to the garage - didn't seem like there was any problem with the fit. More things that make me uncomfortable - odd interference, machine marks on the piston crowns. Anyone seen anything like these? It can't be valves but why are they there? Not seen anything like before.

 

[Torkmnstr]

Looks like valve to me! Lol

 

[WP29440SE]

I'm surprised that thing was running at all. Just for the sake of argument, I've seen hydraulic roller cam and lifters live over 300,000 miles. You ever see the old discount tire commercial with the old lady tossing a tire through the front plate glass window ? Hmmmmmmmm

 

[IQ52]

More than one thing is fishy here. When did Harland Sharp start running black rockers?

http://www.harlandsharp.com/bb_mopar.htm

It certainly looks like something was bouncing around inside the cylinder and left some imprints on the top of the piston. What does the head look like for that cylinder?

 

[Jung]

I just filtered the pics so the adjusters were easier to see. The head looks fine! Bit sooty but no marks to the valves or the head. Similar marks on the other Pistons to a lesser extent.

 

[khryslerkid]

Looks like the head gasket is hanging over the cylinder bore? Might just be the pic...

The marks on the piston reminds me of a 2" sanding disk. Might have use one to remove carbon before the rebuild. Not the thing to use.

Or could be from a end mill that was used to remove the dome that would have been there?

 

[Torkmnstr]

Well all new model cars run rollers just sayin...

 

[Jung]

I'm going to try and ask a local engine builder I guess. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the original build though, especially as we're talking less than 400 miles on an all new motor.

Thanks all for the tips.

 

[dieseldazzle]

I say those are comp cam rockers and the directions specifically remind you they are 5/16 if I remember correctly

 

[747mopar]

Yup - I talked myself out of a solid roller which was stupid. I'll have to measure the adjuster and cups when I get back down to the garage - didn't seem like there was any problem with the fit. More things that make me uncomfortable - odd interference, machine marks on the piston crowns. Anyone seen anything like these? It can't be valves but why are they there? Not seen anything like before.

View attachment 410439

That looks more like sloppy machine work or grinding marks than valve imprints to me. I would think if a valve was able to move around enough to make that pattern it wouldn't be in one piece. My guess is the piston was machined down for compression reasons which would explain the other piston looking simular. I had to have it done on mine which are Keith Blacks, said right in the description "Can be machined for proper compression". If that's the case and I'm betting it is then it's just a sloppy job.

 

[KENTON]

The piston was machined down for valve clearance, maybe. At first I thought it was upside down.

 

[KENTON]

I tried to put a picture up but failed.

 

[Hemirunner]

Ball pein hamner marks from when they beat the pistons in! Holy smokes!

 

[Jung]

I'm going to go with sloppy machining. All the horizontal grain looks like it's from a belt sander. The circular marks are deeper. I'm no expert but not what I'd expect to find in a 'high performance' crate build.sucks!