68 Mopar getting no spark from coil

[Jbland]

Hey guys, i really need some help here so it may be lengthy i'll try to be as brief yet detailed as i can if you need more info just let me know. I have a 68 charger in restoration process. The original 318 is toast so i dropped a crate 360 LA 5.9 in it. Brand new painless wiring harness, pertronix flamethrower 2 distributor, new plugs, wires, pertronix coil, new key ignition switch. Ok for some reason i get no spark from the coil. When tested in run/ignition it has only 9 volts while battery has 12. fuses are all good and all wiring looks good with no burns/breaks. Ballast is bypassed and no electronic box since pertronix says to eliminate these. I have tried 3 different coils here and replaced the ignitor 2 module in the dizzy with no luck. Any other suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated as i'm at my witts end with this and toying with the notion of chevy parts on a mopar which i really don't want to do. Thank you!

 

[Bananna Bee]

When you say 9 volts, in that going into the coil? What is the voltage coming out of the coil going to the distributor?

 

[Jbland]

9 volts on the positive terminal of the coil. When you say coming out going to the dizzy do you mean from the plug/high output? or from the negative terminal? Sorry i'm still a little green at testing the coil. I checked for the proper ohms with nothing hooked to it and it was good. Then i checked the positive terminal which was at 9v. I'm really wondering if the ignitor ii module hasn't burnt up on me since i've been cranking it alot trying to get the carb adjusted so it will idle.

 

[ArtH]

9 volts on the positive terminal of the coil. When you say coming out going to the dizzy do you mean from the plug/high output? or from the negative terminal? Sorry i'm still a little green at testing the coil. I checked for the proper ohms with nothing hooked to it and it was good. Then i checked the positive terminal which was at 9v. I'm really wondering if the ignitor ii module hasn't burnt up on me since i've been cranking it alot trying to get the carb adjusted so it will idle.

You should have 12 volts coming to the positive (+) side of the coil the red wire from the distributor (Pertronix module) should be also connected to the positive side of the coil and the black wire to the Negative (-) side of the coil. Try this. Take the wire from ignition source off the coil and run a jumper from the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the coil with the Pertronix module hooked up to the coil as well. Crank the engine and see if it will fire up. If it does, the engine will continue to run even with the key off! This just to test everything. There is still some resistance coming to the positive side of the coil if all you get is 9 volts.

Check the air gap on the module set up it should be between .010 to .050 inches. They normally give you a plastic feeler gauge for that purpose.

 

[Jbland]

Ok, so i tried the jumper wire from positive battery post to positive side of coil and still no spark. Checked the air gap and it's good at .010. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Is it true that if the distributor module is out the coil will not provide spark? I read somewhere that if the dizzy isn't working right you won't have spark.

 

[ArtH]

Ok, so i tried the jumper wire from positive battery post to positive side of coil and still no spark. Checked the air gap and it's good at .010. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Is it true that if the distributor module is out the coil will not provide spark? I read somewhere that if the dizzy isn't working right you won't have spark.

The module replaced the old mechanical points which when they were closed kept the primary circuit of the ignition system active which is basically holding back the secondary circuit or windings which is building up a much larger charge, in effect a step up transformer. When the points open or the module receives a signal from the magnetic collar on the distributor shaft the primary circuit collapses and "frees" the larger voltage that has built up in the coil to run to the center part of the distributor cap and then to a spark plug wire. All of that happens (the electrical part) at light speed. So, yes, if your points are bad, or the module is fried, nothing will happen. You can damage Pertronix I modules by leaving the ignition circuit charged for more then 30 seconds without the engine running. You can put the key on the ACC if needed be but not in the RUN position without the engine running. I'm under the impression that this problem was addressed on the newer Pertronix II and III series modules, but I may be wrong. The other thing that bothered me was that you stated you were only getting 9 volts to the positive side early on. I do know that low voltage can damage electronics just as high voltage can. However, again, I was told that Series II and III had addressed that problem too.

Now some basic questions. Is the magnetic collar on the distributor shaft? You stated you have a .010 air gap between the it and module which is correct. Make sure the collar is properly set you should be able to push it down on the distributor shaft and while turning it, it will bottom out. If you bought the whole distributor, then it should be set correctly. So, let me ask you this. How are you testing the secondary circuit for fire? I would remove one spark plug and then attach the spark plug wire to it. Ground the plug to the engine block and crank the engine. You should see a nice blue spark jump the spark plug gap. Use the jumper from POS battery to the POS Coil connection. Make sure the red wire is on the POS side of the coil and the black wire is on the NEG side of the coil (coming from the distributor) If you get fire to the spark plug, your problem is not with the coil or the distributor. So how are you testing to see if there is any current leaving the coil and going to the distributor cap?

Can you post some pictures of your set up?

 

[Jbland]

Ok the way I'm testing for spark to the dizzy cap is by unplugging the coil high output wire and holding it close to ground while cranking. Have also hooked it all up to the dizzy, removed spark plug wire and connected to an extra plug I had and grounded to engine. Both of these methods have yielded no spark. I'm really thinking the ignitor 2 module is fried but perplexed as to why only 9 volts at coil. Pics to come!

- - - Updated - - -

 

[benno440]

if that brand is anything like MSD's then try this, if not than disregard this post. test your coil by leaving it all connected with the coil wire and pos and neg terminals, then remove the coil wire from the distributor and place it near an earth, then on the plug that goes to your distributor, disconect it and put a wire between the terminals simutaneously and you should see a spark from coil wire to the ground, if not your coil is not working or the ignition box is not working or a broken wire somewhere.

 

[ArtH]

What is the white wire on the coil for? I see two red leads going to the positive side. One should be from the distributor and the other your power source. What is the power source?

Coil test: https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=how+to+test+a+coil+on+a+car&vid=776c577dafcea52755cdb4766cac27a2&l=2%3A23&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.608032129578962792%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxVhk5FZjyzc&tit=Mallory+Ignition+-+How+to+Test+an+Ignition+Coil+for+a+Positive+Spark+%2329219&c=25&sigr=11bmsccke&sigt=12bmt5h40&ct=p&age=0&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av%2Cm%3Asa&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

 

[Jbland]

That's on the negative side it's the tachometer . The red wires are to the dizzy and the jumper to the battery.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Have you tried the pertronix tech line? You are not providing enough information on what has been installed to obtain the proper wire diagrams to answer your question.

 

[ArtH]

Those aren't solid core plug wires, are they?

 

[Jbland]

No they aren't solid core wires. Update: I swapped the dizzy to the electronic type and hooked the orange ecu box up w ballast resistor. With ignition in the run position I'm only getting 4-5 volts to the coil positive side. Shouldn't that be at least 8volts? All fuses once again are good and all wiring is brand new and has been inspected with no breaks or burns anyplace!

 

[mopar 3 B]

 

[nm9stheham]

That's on the negative side it's the tachometer . The red wires are to the dizzy and the jumper to the battery.

This looks like the present problem: why is the jumper to the battery going to the same side of the coil as the wire to the distributor? That is AFU....

For the testing suggested, the only wires to the coil should be:
1. Jumper from battery to coil+ (make this jumper wire so you can disconnect it like the ignition switch so it is not hot all the time)
2. Wire from distributor to coil -

Let's back up even further and test just the coil:
- Remove the tach wire for now
- Wire up coil with battery junmper to coil + and nothing to coil -
- Make up another wire jumper and ground one end to battery -
- Place the coil spark wire near ground with about a 1/4" gap
- Touch the ground jumper to coil - and then remove (But don't be touching the bare end of the wire!)
- Remove the ground jumper from coil - and look for a good spark at that moment
- Each time you touch and disconnect the ground jumper to coil - you shoudl see a good spark; you are simulating what the distributor and/or the control module are doing to create a spark

If this is good, then your coil is good.

Now:
- Disconnect the battery jumper from coil + and reconnect the wire from the ignition switch to coil +; DON'T have anything else connected (NO tach wire). NOTE: For your system with no ballast, you have to have 2 of the original ignition system wires going to coil +; you need both the dark blue wire that went alone to one end of the ballast AND the brown wire that connected to the other end of the ballast going to coil +. If you have a stock type harness, you can achieve this by simply inserting a wire jumper where the ballast used to go.
- Turn the ignition switch to RUN (not START) and see if there is near to 12v at coil +
- Then check to see if you have 12V at the coil+ when the key is in START (it will drop some while the starter is cranking)
- If you don't have close to battery voltage in both case, then you probably have a corrosion problem in the bulkhead connectors.

Let us know how all this goes.

 

[Jbland]

Ok so upon swapping the coil I had and performing the test I now have spark!! I adjusted timing and it's pretty close now and will start quick and hold idle. Thank you all for the advice and replies I really appreciate it. The ignition really had me stressed for a while. Thanks again!

 

[coloradodave]

nm9stheham: Good info that helped a guy get his car going. Good for you taking the time to lay this out and Merry Christmas.

 

[ArtH]

This looks like the present problem: why is the jumper to the battery going to the same side of the coil as the wire to the distributor? That is AFU.....

Originally, his compliant was low voltage at the POS side of the coil with a PERTRONIX system. Pertronix wants battery voltage. By running a jumper from the POS side of the battery to the positive side of the coil (with PERTRONIX) your are giving the module and the coil what the system requires. If the module and coil are good, the engine will fire up when cranked if the timing is correct. However the only way to shut it off, is to remove the positive side from the battery. It's just a test to see if you can get it running. I've used this with Pertronix in the past and it will work if the components are correct and working. Obviously, he had a bad coil, so nothing short of replacing the coil would solve the problem. But, then he changed the ignition system...