727 Not Pulling

[Plumber452]

Hello All,

So I got my 1964 Plymouth Fury up and running that had not been run since at least 1976. Put a rebuilt engine in it, new Torque Converter and changed the trans filter and fluid. The old fluid looked good and no sparkles in the pan. I've driven the car about 50 miles since then over the last four or five months just in the subdivision. Seemed to shift fine, etc. I get in it today after setting for a month, put it in gear and started heading up the court. As I approached the stop sign the car stops moving forward. No slipping, buzzing, grinding, etc. As I pull away from the stop sign the engine rpm goes up and the car slowly moves picking up speed. It seemed to shift into the other two gears. As I approached the end of the street and slowed down to turn around the car would barley pull itself. Got back home, checked fluid, hot in Neutral, not Park and it was barely below the full mark not even in the "Add1/2 pint" area of the dipstick. Any ideas????

 

[davek]

correct torque converter?

 

[Plumber452]

correct torque converter?

Yep. It's a Hughes and was sized for the engine

 

[davek]

is the fluid moving,meaning pressure ? When 1st installed no problem then it started to get worse correct? Pump might be failing.

 

[Dave6T4]

On a cable shift/push button transmission, make sure you have the right fluid filter on it. These transmissions have a front and rear oil pump in them. The valve body has 2 fluid intakes on it, and requires a filter with 2 oil intake holes. Most places like O'Rielleys, Car Quest do not normally stock these, but can order them for you. I am working on one of these transmissions for a friend right now. The first thing I noticed was that it had the incorrect 1-hole filter on it.

 

[dvw]

Is this the original unmodified trans? If so as mentioned it needs the 2 hole filter. Secondly it needs a 18 spline converter. A later 24 spline converter will slip on. But it will strip the splines. Did they spec the converter for the proper input shaft?
Doug

 

[Geoff 2]

Make sure the shift cable is shifting properly, not between gears or Neutral.

 

[Plumber452]

is the fluid moving,meaning pressure ? When 1st installed no problem then it started to get worse correct? Pump might be failing.

I've not done any diagnostics on it yet. I agree with you that a weak pump might be the issue. But, to answer your question yes it did seem to work fine after my initial fluid/filter change. Although in retrospect the car didn't/doesn't seem to have the punch to it when I would floor it. And I did determine that it was downshifting when I would floor it. I was disappointed with the way the freshly rebuilt 440 with a slighter hotter cam, Keith black pistons and roller rocker was performing. Perhaps it's been a lose of pressure from the beginning and now it's done. I have read that the clutch seals can get hard over time and cause a problem like this. My understanding is you have two packs, Reverse and all forward gears. It goes in reverse and pulls fine. what little distance I've gone in reverse.

Thanks,
Everitt

 

[Plumber452]

On a cable shift/push button transmission, make sure you have the right fluid filter on it. These transmissions have a front and rear oil pump in them. The valve body has 2 fluid intakes on it, and requires a filter with 2 oil intake holes. Most places like O'Rielleys, Car Quest do not normally stock these, but can order them for you. I am working on one of these transmissions for a friend right now. The first thing I noticed was that it had the incorrect 1-hole filter on it.

I don't recall the number of holes on the original or replacement filter. The replacement came from Fatco Transmission along with O-rings for the cables and gaskets for the pan and the reverse cable cover. Would it take a few miles and drive cycles for the problem to show up with the wrong filter?

Thanks,

Everitt

 

[Plumber452]

Is this the original unmodified trans? If so as mentioned it needs the 2 hole filter. Secondly it needs a 18 spline converter. A later 24 spline converter will slip on. But it will strip the splines. Did they spec the converter for the proper input shaft?
Doug

Yes it's an unmodified transmission. The original engine was a 1963 413. The replacement engine is a 1976 440 block and internals as I understand. The seller of the new engine is a big Mopar guy and because the new engine is internally balanced as opposed to the original it required a different flex plate and Torque Converter. I did speak directly with a guy at Hughes and I counted the splines as 24. The original converter was 24. I still have it. I may be Bassakwards on the balance thing but me, the seller of the new engine and Hughes had a couple of different conversations over this combination.

Thanks,
Everitt

 

[Plumber452]

Make sure the shift cable is shifting properly, not between gears or Neutral.

I'll check that. Although when I do put it in Drive or First I can still feel, albeit slight, a "Clunk" like its going in gear. The one thing that still blows my mind is the last time I drove it it seemed fine. Park it in a heated garage, come back 4-5 weeks later start the car and immediately have this problem

Thanks,

Everitt

 

[gtxrt]

Up until 1966 all came with a 18 spine 2 hole filter. somebody must have put a 24 spine in it. wonder if they changed the valve body too and used a 1 hole filter. when you ordered the filter did you ask for one for a 1964 fury if so you would get a 2 hole filter and not the 1 hole that you need.

 

[Plumber452]

Up until 1966 all came with a 18 spine 2 hole filter. somebody must have put a 24 spine in it. wonder if they changed the valve body too and used a 1 hole filter. when you ordered the filter did you ask for one for a 1964 fury if so you would get a 2 hole filter and not the 1 hole that you need.

And the plot thickens!!!! If my memory serves me correctly I only remember the filter having one hole. But if I actually needed a two hole filter, and used the one hole, wouldn't the problem shown up sooner? I'm basing my years and model of cars the engine/trans came from on information I got from this site shortly after I joined. I bought the car as a project that had been setting for a number of years in which someone started putting a 413 with trans in a 1964 Fury wagon that originally had a 318 Poly and pushbutton trans. By the numbers on the head and block on the 413 members here said it appeared the engine was from a 1963 Chrysler 300. Now I'm totally confused, which isn't hard to do LOL!! I'll dig up my receipt from Fatco and see if I can decipher the filter. I have family things this weekend and Monday so I'm not going to get it back in the air and drop the pan. What is your/everyone else's thoughts as to how to proceed. Again, was working when stopped, not working 4-5 weeks later.

Thanks,

Everitt

 

[gtxrt]

wouldn't the problem shown up sooner?

it would seem like it would. unless it took that long to ruin something. I am just throwing it out there i have no way of knowing.

 

[gtxrt]

loose valve body bolts or loose filter to valve body would do that too.

 

[Runcharger]

Sounds like the first order of business will be to pull the pan, look for clutch or metal in the fluid, inspect the filter, check snugness of valve body fasteners.

 

[dvw]

If it's a push button valve body the filter needs two holes. The 2nd hole is for the rear pump inlet. It may have been pulling some fluid through the filter material. It needs rear pump pressure to shift. You can cut the 2nd hole with a knife if necessary. If it's 24 spline the input shaft and reaction shaft support have been updated to a 67 or newer. As mentioned loose valve body screws or case bolts could be an issue.
Doug

 

[ka0mek]

correct torque converter?

add a pint . u may have a bad or

correct torque converter?

a bad one u know they r all rebuilt now . none r new

 

[Plumber452]

So, I apologize for being a Dumba....s up front. I was wrong on the spline count. I was looking at the outer count not the input shaft. See attached photo of the old Torque Convertor. Zoom in and it looks like 19! I know this can't be. The other photo is before I installed the "New" engine. If you zoom in you'll see where I marked one spline with a white marker to do my count. I think it's 18. I've e-mailed Hughes today but they are closed. As for the filter, Fatsco sent me SKU 12. I don't see that on their online catalog only a SKU 17, which says it's for a 1966 or newer. So, I think I have the right filter. I agree with everyone that I won't know much until I drop the pan.

Thanks for the patience

 

[davek]

I hope you get it figured out and please keep us up to date.